NYIKAL WAMBURA JAMES

Hon. Temporary Speaker, I beg to move that the Maternal Newborn and Child Health Bill (Senate Bill No. 17 of 2023) be now read a Second Time. Hon. Temporary Speaker, I wish to begin by thanking the Members of our Committee, which I have the honour to chair, for the...

I will not be very technical. 14th October 2025 NATIONAL ASSEMBLY DEBATES 33 He means before attaining one year of age. Yes, it is before attaining one year of age. This is what we call infant mortality. This is a measure of how well our system is working. If a...

The essence of my statement is that less children are dying than before, but not all African cultures practice the same.

Hon. Temporary Speaker, the context of my statement was that very many children were dying. In the villages, you would know somebody who had lost a child. These days, it is rare for children under one year of age to die. In essence, we have marked improvement. You have brought...

I accept the information, but I am speaking about the country. I know the problem in Kiambu County. We have even received a petition today. These are the facts we want to put in place. That is why we have this Bill. If we had this 14th October 2025 NATIONAL...

Thank you, Hon. Deputy Speaker. I rise to support Petition No. 22/2025. Our lecturers have been on strike for a long time. Our kids are also in the streets. As the Public Petitions Committee looks at the Petition, one point that stands out is that these CBAs are drafted, and...

Thank you, Hon. Temporary Speaker. As I support this Bill, I want to do so with great caution. We have created many structures, and we are now trying to resolve all of them. The genesis of this Bill is Section 12 of the Intergovernmental Relations Act. That is the basic...

Thank you, Hon. Temporary Speaker, for giving me this opportunity. As I rise to support the Report, I also feel a bit sad. From where I sit, we are not progressing. We are going backwards. If you look at the Report, half of it is devoted to the budget, including...

Thank you, Hon. Temporary Chairlady. I have an amendment. I beg to move: THAT, the Bill be amended by deleting Clause 5 and substituting therefor the following new clause 5— 8th October 2025 NATIONAL ASSEMBLY DEBATES 6 Assisted Reproductive Technology Committee.

Yes, Hon. Temporary Chairlady. The issue here was that the Bill was creating a directorate but it was agreed that that would be creating a whole new structure. We agreed that we should have a council within the KMPDC. A lot of other amendments will be relating to that. We...

Hon. Temporary Chairlady, I beg to move: THAT, Clause 7 of the Bill be amended by deleting the words “National Government” and substituting therefor the words “Cabinet Secretary”. Basically, we are deleting the words “National Government” and replacing them with the words “Cabinet Secretary” to be more specific. It is...

I would like to add a word when that cleaning is being done. An issue has come up on whether we are talking about SHA or SHIF which makes a big difference. If you talk about SHIF, you are only talking about one fund. If you talk about SHA, you...

Hon. Temporary Chairlady, I beg to move: THAT, Clause 8 of the Bill be amended by— Hon. Chairlady, if you allow, I may want to consult with Hon. Millie on what you have just said then we proceed. It is just for a minute or two, regarding dropping all of...

That is exactly why we urge you to consider this request. We went through a very rigorous winnowing almost twice. I have the list of all the clauses we could not agree on. We allowed him to prosecute them on the Floor of the House. My concern is that he...

THAT, the Bill be amended by deleting Clause 10. The reason is the same as that in Clause 9 on the change from ‘directorate’ to ‘council’. (Question of the amendment proposed) The Temporary Chairlady (Hon. (Dr) Rachael Nyamai) : Hon. Joshua Kimilu, Member for Kaiti.

THAT, Clause 12 of the Bill be amended in sub-clause (1) by deleting the words “written consent, in accordance with the prescribed Regulations, to its use for that purpose” and substituting therefor the words “written informed consent”. The justification for this is to add the word ‘informed’ between the words...

THAT, Clause 13 of the Bill be amended in— 8th October 2025 NATIONAL ASSEMBLY DEBATES 14

THAT, Clause 15 of the Bill be amended in sub-clause (1) by deleting the word “purely” appearing in paragraph (c) . This is just for wording purposes. Initially, Clause 15 indicated that “A person shall not undertake assisted reproductive technology for purely speculative and commercial purposes.” The word ‘purely’ is...

THAT, Clause 16 of the Bill be amended in sub-clause (1) by inserting the following new paragraph immediately after paragraph (b) — “ (c) a gamete or embryo other than that consented to by the woman;” The justification for this is what Clause 15 states – ‘You shall not, for...

THAT, Clause 17 of the Bill be amended by—

It is beyond and in the context that she has said. That is why I earlier on said that you may harvest the ovum or sperm from a child for later use by the same child if they are sick and the cost of treatment will reduce them. We can...

THAT, Clause 19 of the Bill be amended in sub-clause (1) by— THAT, Clause 20 of the Bill be amended by—

Okay. Parts (b) and (c) are about renumbering and deleting. The most important one there is part (d) . I think that is what Hon. Millie may be concerned about. When you do posthumous reproduction, a question arises – which is, how you place the ovum of a woman or...

Yes, I get you.

We concur. If you put the word ‘and’, then the two conditions in parts (a) and (b) must be met together. Whereas if you delete ‘and’, then part (a) stands on its own – ‘father was married to the woman at the time of the death of the woman.’ This...

You would need to legislate because you may be dealing with a married woman. In that case, part (a) applies and no one can raise an issue. The Temporary Chairlady (Hon. (Dr) Rachael Nyamai) : Hon. Ole Sunkuli, I thought you would stay close to Hon. (Dr) Nyikal so that...

Part (b) will apply when the woman is not married and, therefore, requiring a written consent. Where they are married, written consent is not needed. People can, however, still raise an issue because what we are dealing with here is a case where the woman gave her ovum when she...

THAT, Clause 21 of the Bill be amended by—

THAT, the Bill be amended by deleting Clause 22. 8th October 2025 NATIONAL ASSEMBLY DEBATES 23 The essence of this is that nearly all the services provided are actually on medical grounds. This was intended to ask the national Government to implement services that were already addressed in another clause....

Hon. Temporary Chairlady, may I intervene? The Temporary Chairlady (Hon. (Dr) Rachael Nyamai) : The point of contention is that the Chair is proposing a deletion, and Hon. Millie Odhiambo is suggesting that the deletion should not happen. She has given her justification. It is a matter of asking whether...

THAT, Clause 23 of the Bill be amended—

THAT, the Bill be amended by deleting Clause 25. It has listed conditions, but the fundamental issue here is that all those conditions are placing marriage as the primary qualification for having assisted reproductive technology services. The Committee’s position is that marriage should not be a hindrance; if you want...

THAT, Clause 28 of the Bill be amended—

The only justification that was remaining is that the persons entering a surrogacy agreement shall only seek benefits as a consequence of surrogacy and not the process of surrogacy. The deletion is on the issue of whether people will go into surrogacy for commercial reasons. In our view, that should...

THAT, Clause 29 of the Bill be amended in sub-clause (1) by—

THAT, Clause 32 of the Bill be amended by— Okay. The amendment in Clause 32 (b) of the Bill prohibits the sale or transfer of embryos. (Question of the amendment proposed) (Hon. Irene Njoki spoke off the record) The Temporary Chairlady (Hon. Rachael Nyamai) : Member for Bahati, Hon. Irene...

I take Hon. Millie's point on Clauses 31 and I beg to move: THAT, Clause 33 of the Bill be amended – I beg to move: THAT, Clause 34 of the Bill be amended- I beg to move: THAT, Clause 35 of the Bill be amended by deleting the word...

THAT, Clause 43 of the Bill be amended — THAT, Clause 44 of the Bill be amended by deleting the word “Directorate” wherever it appears and substituting therefor the word “Council”. The justification, as we had said earlier, is the issue of the Council and the Directorate. We are just...

We actually have a provision to that. Nobody can handle any embryo without the consent of the owner of the embryo.

If you look back, we have gone through a number of clauses on commercialisation of the process. The Temporary Chairlady (Hon. (Dr) Rachael Nyamai) : Hon. Irene, we have several Clauses that are securing the embryos, so a situation like that cannot happen. Look from Clause 8th October 2025 NATIONAL...

Hon. Temporary Chairlady, I beg to move; THAT, Clause 45 of the Bill be amended in subclause (2) by deleting the word “Directorate” appearing in paragraph (b) and substituting therefor the word “Council”. This has to do with the functions of the directorate which now we want to be in...

Hon. Temporary Chairlady, I beg to move; THAT, Clause 47 of the Bill be amended by deleting the word “Directorate” appearing in sub-clause (1) and substituting therefor the word “Council” Once again, it is to do with the functions of the directorate and the Council. So basically we are just...

Chair, that may be true and it actually appeals to my feelings as well. But what we have before me did not include it. So, you can guide us on whether, at this time, we can move an amendment to that part.

Because we only dealt with 47 (1) . I do not think we have covered that. So, if you are going to move that amendment, can I do it now? What we did was 47, where the Director refuses to issue a licence and the Cabinet Secretary may make such...

I beg to move: THAT, Clause 49 of the Bill be amended by deleting the word “Directorate” wherever it appears and substituting therefor the word “Council”. 8th October 2025 NATIONAL ASSEMBLY DEBATES 45 This is necessary to harmonise with our earlier decision to remove the word Directorate and replace it...

Hon. Temporary Chairlady, I beg to move that New Clauses 19A, 19B and 19C be now read a Second Time. The justification for Clause 19A is to limit the number of donations of gametes and surrogacies for the health and well-being of surrogate mothers and foetuses. It sets a reasonable...

Hon. Temporary Chairlady, New Clause 19A (2) says: A person shall not perform a treatment procedure using gametes or an embryo produced by a donor, if such procedure may result in more than 10 children who are genetic siblings. Hon. Millie has indicated that there is a danger in having...

Hon. Temporary Chairlady, I beg to move that the new clauses 27A and 27B be now read a Second Time. In New Clause 27A, an intended person may use assisted reproduction where the person is a Kenyan, has attained the age of 25 years, and is below the age of...

I beg to move that New Clauses 28A and 28B be now read a Second Time. New Clause 28A prohibits commercialisations of surrogacy. This clause forbids anyone from initiating negotiations, offering agreements, or involving any payments that would lead to the process being commercialised or of a commercial nature. New...

Hon. Deputy Speaker, what the Cabinet Secretary is saying is not true. The KMTC did not request KUCCPS to take over the admission. The other way round is the correct position. The KUCCPS insisted on taking over the admission. The first admission KUCCPS handled was challenged in court. It was...

I need clarification on KUCCPS admitting KMTC students. We cannot run a country if we do not say the truth. The request was not from KMTC. If that letter came, it must have come later and under duress. If KMTC is under the Ministry of Education, why do we allocate...

Hon. Temporary Speaker, on a point of order. Hon. Nyikal, I want to go to the next Question. What is your point of order? Hon. Temporary Speaker, the Cabinet Secretary is answering prepared questions, but one pattern is coming out. What we see on the ground is different from what...

I second. (Question proposed)

Thank you, Hon. Deputy Speaker. I also thank KENCO for bringing this Petition. Even before I look at the Petition, from what you have read, I am aware that there is a discrepancy between the benefit package for cancer and the tariff thereof, and the cost of cancer in the...

Thank you, Hon. Temporary Speaker. I support this with extreme caution. The principle of selling assets and transitioning their management to private entities is commendable. However, given our circumstances, one must examine the summary presented in the Supplementary Order Paper. The entire situation relies on the actions of the Privatisation...

Hon. Temporary Speaker, I second. (Question proposed) (Question put and agreed to)

Thank you, Hon. Temporary Speaker. As I support the Report, I want to make only one point on land. Many institutions, not just the ones that have been mentioned in the Report, have large tracts of land, but they do not have their titles. People settle on the land and...

Hon. Temporary Speaker, I second. (Question proposed) (Question put and agreed to)

Thank you, Hon. Temporary Speaker. As I support the Report, I want to make only one point on land. Many institutions, not just the ones that have been mentioned in the Report, have large tracts of land, but they do not have their titles. People settle on the land and...

Thank you, Hon. Temporary Speaker. I beg to lay the following Paper on the Table of the House: 13th August 2025 NATIONAL ASSEMBLY DEBATES 1 Report of the Departmental Committee on Health on the Harmonisation of the

Hon. Chairlady, I beg to move: THAT, Clause 2 of the Bill be deleted as proposed by His Excellency the President. Hon. Temporary Chairlady, Clause 2 of the Bill proposes to introduce the definition of the terms e-health and telemedicine to the principal Act. The two terms are already defined...

Hon. Temporary Chairlady, what has been stated is what the law is. We have said here many times that the Constitution has given the Executive the opportunity to make law, even if it is through the back door. Unfortunately, that is what it is. However, there is another issue: how...

THAT, Clause 3 of the Bill be deleted. Clause 3 of the Bill seeks to amend section 5 of the principal Act by inserting new paragraphs. The two insertions on the functions of the National Cancer Institute are promoting the use of eHealth and telemedicine for the prevention and management...

Hon. Speaker, I rise to ask the Cabinet Secretary for Interior and National Administration the following question:

Thank you, Cabinet Secretary, for a very well laid out response. However, I have a concern that prompted my remarks. What we have observed regarding the general conduct of the police force, particularly during demonstrations and even in their homes, does not support the assertions you have made. Obviously, there...

I have a comment. A comment? Yes, you have half a minute. Hon. Speaker, the Cabinet Secretary said something very important that must be acted on. You cannot have a person who started working at 11.00 a.m. and by 5 O'clock has not eaten, holding a firearm. That, I think,...

Thank you, Hon. Temporary Speaker. This is not in reference to what Hon. Oluoch said, which is also a fact. This is a double-edged sword in the hands of the NLC. Whereas it is quite acceptable, and I agree that where there were historical injustices, there should be an opportunity...

The NLC should look into such matters very carefully and protect the rights of both institutions and individuals. Thank you. 12th August 2025 NATIONAL ASSEMBLY DEBATES 30

Thank you, Hon. Deputy Speaker. This is a very important question. We will make an effort to get an answer within two weeks, if possible. It is fairly comprehensive, but we shall make every effort because it is of great importance to the whole country.

Thank you, Hon. Deputy Speaker. This matter of a child being held is obviously very critical. We will make every effort to have a report ready by next week, if possible. At least regarding the release of the child, even if other policy matters are still to be looked into....

Thank you, Hon. Deputy Speaker. This is a very important question. We will make an effort to get an answer within two weeks, if possible. It is fairly comprehensive, but we shall make every effort because it is of great importance to the whole country.

Thank you, Hon. Deputy Speaker. This matter of a child being held is obviously very critical. We will make every effort to have a report ready by next week, if possible. At least regarding the release of the child, even if other policy matters are still to be looked into....

It is not a point of order. I just wish to joyride on this one. It is commendable that Hon. Members are working hard to address this problem. However, the issue appears to be much larger than schools alone, because the rising water levels in Lake Turkana are caused by...

Hon. Deputy Speaker, last week on Thursday, I gave a response on behalf of the Committee.

Hon. Deputy Speaker, last week during the Thursday Sitting in the afternoon, I responded to a Question raised by Hon. Irene Kasalu on behalf of the Committee regarding a body that had been retained at Kenyatta National Hospital (KNH) . This situation raised numerous questions about the constitutional and legal...

Thank you, Hon. Deputy Speaker. This is a terrible situation in the world where the international community is silent the same way it is quiet to what is happening in the Sudan right now. The conflict has a long history that is biblical in nature. The Israel people were dispersed...