Veronica Waheti Nduati

Is that all for the witness? Yes, Madam Temporary Speaker. So, we are proceeding on to cross-examination.

You may proceed.

Which volume are you relying on?

Is it Vol.1B or just 1?

Okay, proceed.

What page?

Sir, can you respond to the figures you are being asked?

Witness, you are required to respond to the question he has asked about public participation. I believe that is one question that you can answer by a “Yes” or “No”. Was there public participation?

Counsel, your 10 minutes are over, but you have the discretion to use more minutes from your allocated timeline of one hour and 20 minutes.

Do you want more minutes?

Hon. Senators, we have this witness. I have several requests for clarifications. We should use the least time to get clarifications from this witness. Proceed, Sen. Tabitha Mutinda.

Witness, you may proceed to respond.

Sen. Wambua, what is your intervention?

Witness, you may respond.

Sen. Cherarkey, proceed.

You may proceed to answer those questions.

Hold on a bit, Sen. Danson Mungatana. To the witness, there was a question on your ICPAK registration.

Thank you, Madam Temporary Speaker. I was seeking clarification from the witness. I listened to you when the question was put to you on the financial performance of Meru County. I heard you say that the OAG has given a report giving an unqualified opinion and, therefore, it is good....

Proceed to answer that question.

Those were the requests we had on the board. Yours is not showing. Sen. Kisang,’ you can proceed. Clerk, check your system.

Witness, proceed.

That is all with regard to clarifications from the Senators. There is no Senator left out. The County Executive team can call in the next witness.

County Executive team, where is your witness? (The Witness for Meru County Governor (Mr. Dickson Munene Nkanata) was ushered into the Chamber and took oath)

Sen. Cherarkey, what is your intervention?

Your time is frozen any time there is an intervention. Can you give the microphone to Sen. Cherarkey?

Otherwise, if it is just going to class together, many people have been in school together. So, I will overrule that objection, or do you have any other interests you want to disclose beyond going to school together?I have overruled just attending the same school or the same class as...

What is your point of information? Sen. Methu, is there another point of information which is relevant and will not take away our minutes? We have a very short time.

Thank you, though presumably it comes late after I had given a direction, but that suffices to close out that issue. Let us proceed with the witness, Counsel.

Hon. Senators, it is now 1.00 ADJOURNMENT

Hon. Evans Mawira, you were in this House on 6thand 7th November, 2023 with an impeachment Motion and you say this was politically instigated by some political leaders. However, in paragraph four of your affidavit, you did not disclose who these political leaders were. I have seen many meetings taking...

Governor, that is not the question you have been asked. For purposes of argument, assuming that the verdict is that you go back to Meru, with whatever you have explained such as the toxic political environment, will you deliver anything or will you be brought back here? That is the...

Hold on, Sen. Gloria. (Loud consultations) [The Temporary Speaker (Sen. Veronica Maina) left the Chair] [The Speaker (Hon. Kingi) in the Chair]

from the Republic of Kenya. It then becomes very worrying that we have stocks of tea stuck in the auction in Mombasa. Whatever is happening needs to be resolved.The Standing Committee on Agriculture, Livestock and Fisheries must look into that issue very urgently because the number of farmers who are...

Madam Temporary Speaker, I have not spoken about commenting on--- I just read my Statements. I wanted to comment on the performance in athletics. Madam Temporary Speaker, I would like to support Sen. Crystal Asige on the issue of performance in athletics. (Loud consultations)

Resume your seat, Sen.

chance to comment on the other Statements. Please, cede ground because you read Statements.Let us listen to Sen. Wamatinga. chance to comment on the other Statements. Please, cede ground because you read Statements.Let us listen to Sen. Wamatinga.

Thank you. Sen. Faki proceed.

Nakumbuka tulipokuwa wachanga, baba na mama walikuwa wafanyikazi wa Kitengo cha Afya. Walikuwa wakifanya kazi kwa Serikali. Ingawaje tulikuwa wachanga, tulikuwa tunaona dhiki na shida katika hali ya maisha.Ukweli wa mambo tukiwa tunaunga mkono Statement ya Mheshimiwa ni kwamba, mara nyingi magavana wa Kenya wakishughulikia mipango ya afya, hawaangalii shida...

(Loud consultations)

Sen. Kavindu, your submissions are completely on fire. Sen. Cherarkey, I will give you two minutes because you have already read the Statement and the Statements Hour has ended.

Thank you. Hon. Senators, I wish to bring it to your attention that we have a supplementary Order Paper. We will be moving away from the Questions and Statements because we have finalized the comments and the debate on that item. I will reorganize the Order Paper to allow for...

Resume your seats hon. THE DIVISION OF REVENUE (AMENDMENT) BILL (NATIONAL ASSEMBLY BILLS NO.38 OF 2024) and ordered to be referred to the relevant Senate Committee) CONSIDERATION OF THE NATIONAL ASSEMBLY AMENDMENTS TO THE EQUALIZATION FUND APPROPRIATION (NO.2) BILL (SENATE BILLS NO.30 OF 2023) (Motion deferred)This Order is deferred because...

Okay, proceed.

Thank you, Senator. Proceed, Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale.

Thank you, Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale. (Question proposed) I now call upon Senators to make their contributions now. Sen. Olekina Ledama, proceed.

Hon. Senator, continue with the debate. They will consult in low tones. I am personally convinced on the necessity of these various bodies. The Agency has been operating as the secretariat of the Summit. It has also been the one facilitating and coordinating the sectoral forums of the national county...

Thank you, Sen. Tobiko. Sen.

Sen. Olekina, what is your point of order?

Madam Temporary Speaker, everything we say here remains on record. I have a big problem with the existence of the COG illegally. I would like to get some clarity from my good friend, Sen. M. Kajwang’, who was the Chairperson of the Committee on Devolution in the last Parliament and...

No, Madam Temporary Speaker, it is a good word to use. It is not a bad word. He is the one who uses it every day. It does not mean that he is that. I would like to know whether that illegality can be considered as outsmarting the Agency in...

Madam Temporary Speaker, I am wondering whether my good friend is now losing his memory. He has just been told that I am on a point of order and he has to be patient. If I can just finish on the clarification, I am seeking from the distinguished Senator for...

Madam Temporary Speaker, this is a House of rules and because he was on a point of order, I was constrained. I wanted to challenge him on a point of order. The clarification I want you to make is, is it right for a Member to hide in a Standing...

Sen. M. Kajwang’, proceed and throw more light and clarity on the issue you have been asked. Sen. (Dr.) Bonie, what is your point of clarification?

Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale, it is on your own admission of how you have been described, but nonetheless, he has sought a clarification, which is in order. He has also referenced a section in law to distinguish whether that act of illegality can be referred to as a smart action. Sen....

Sen. M. Kajwang’, you will have five minutes when we resume debate. ADJOURNMENT Hon. Senators, it is now 6.30

Sen. Karen Nyamu proceed.

Proceed, Sen. David Wakoli Wafula.

The last person to comment is Sen. Erick Okong’o Omogeni.

Hon. Senators, I would like to acknowledge the presence in the public gallery this afternoon of visiting teachers and students from Mogoma Secondary School in Bomet County. The delegation comprises six teachers and 68 students who are in the Senate for a one-day academic exposition. Hon. Senators, in our usual...

Thank you, Majority Leader. I will now reorganise the Order Paper and defer Order Nos.8 and No.9. THE CONSTITUTION OF KENYA (AMENDMENT) (NO.2) BILL (SENATE BILLS NO.52 OF 2023) THE LOCAL CONTENT BILL (SENATE BILLS NO.50 OF 2023) ADOPTION OF REPORT ON APPROVAL OF DR. PATRICK OMWANDA AMOTH FOR APPOINTMENT...

If the Senator for Bungoma did that, he is lucky to have escaped my eye. Therefore, he will not be reprimanded because I did not see him. I would hope that the Senator for Bungoma does respect the broad-based Government, the Chair and Dr. Amoth. Next Order. I want to...

You may proceed.

You may proceed, Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale

Thank you. I will invite Senators to make contributions to this Motion. Sen. Mungatana, proceed.

Sen. Mungatana, I hope you will mind the fact that several people would like to contribute. On your own volition, make it a business of three minutes. (Loud consultations)

Sen. Chararkey, what is your point of order?

Sen. Faki, please, take note and proceed.

Let us listen to Sen. Cherarkey.

Sen. Cherarkey, just for your information, three schools have visited the Senate today; Magoma Secondary School from Bomet County, Starehe Boys Centre and Friends School, Keveye Girls from Vihiga County. They have all been acknowledged, but they came in different tranches. Maybe, that is why you saw some walking in...

Sen. Mariam Omar proceed.

Thank you, Sen. Mariam Omar. Sen. M. Kajwang’ proceed.

Thank you, Senator. Sen. Tobiko Peris, proceed.

Your time is up, Sen. Peris. Finish the sentence.

Proceed, Sen. Okoiti Andrew Omtatah.

Proceed, Sen. Orwoba Gloria.

Sen. Orwoba, you may proceed and finalize in your minutes.

Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale, what is your point of order?

Sen. Gloria, there is a point of order raised by Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale with regard to what constitutes a fund that is under discussion and whether you do appreciate what that fund is intended for and who utilizes it; whether it is the national Government or county governments.

What is the point of information, Sen. M. Kajwang? Sen. Gloria, would you like to be informed?

Sen. Gloria, I think we rest the matter there. However, your truth may not be the truth to Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale. People have different sets of truth, but facts remain facts. Let us proceed on to Sen. Olekina.

Sen. M. Kajwang’and Sen. Orwoba, can you consult in low tones. Sen. Orwoba, you were complaining a few minutes ago that you could not be heard on the Floor of the House because of Senators making noise. Proceed, Sen. Olekina.

Senator, your time is up. Thank you. There are no more Senators who would wish to contribute to this Motion. I call the Mover of this Motion, Sen. Tabitha Mutinda, to reply on behalf of the Chairperson, Standing Committee on Finance and Budget.

What is your point of order, Sen. Joyce?

Sen. Gloria, you have touched on the nominee and the process is ongoing. What is your response to the point of order by Sen. Korir?

Sen. Gloria, my guidance is that since the process is ongoing, we would not want to put the cart before the horse. I believe, the report is not yet done and the determination is still pending before the House. The comments on the Floor of this House could as well...

We do not want those comments. Just to clarify, these comments should not be the ones that are guiding that Committee; that House is independent and should objectively make its own finding and verdict. There are competent hon. Members who are superintending over that matter. They have the capacity to...

Hon. Senators, the Motion is open for debate. I will ask Sen. Cherarkey Samson Kiprotich to take the Floor.

Sen. Cherarkey, before you proceed, I must guide the House that the law requires the recommendation of two candidates, a man and a woman, and the President will appoint one of them. Thank you, you may proceed.

Sen. Cherarkey, I had given direction regarding commenting on a process which has not been completed by the other House. I gave that direction to Sen. Gloria and it should have clearly informed your debate. It seems not to have been informed by that. I now guide you not to...

The nominee is clearly known, Sen. Cherarkey. Every Member would take judicial notice of who the nominee in respect of the Ministry of Sports is. It is safest to do what Sen. Gloria did. Leave that process until it bakes fully, so that you do not interfere with the judgment...

Hon. Senator, thank you for seeking that clarification. The difference is that those nominees are already sitting and have the opportunity to respond to any claim that will be raised by the interview panel. The nominees are not yet in this House, so if any issue is raised, they do...

Thank you. Sen. M Kajwang’, proceed.

Sen. Orwoba, what Standing Order are you rising on? A certified version of this Report

On a point of Order, Madam Temporary Speaker. Sen. Orwoba, you cannot reference cartels without substantiating whether there are cartels in the House. So, you will be required to substantiate that.

You have a point of order?

Sen. Gloria, can you allow the Senator to be heard in silence? You got your chance. I have said that you allow him to finish what he is saying.

Thank you. I will hear Sen. Joyce and then give direction. (Sen. Orwoba spoke off record) Sen. Gloria, wait for your chance.

Sen. Gloria, an issue has been raised by Sen. Wambua on the nexus between your point of order and the discussion on the debate by Sen. M. Kajwang’. In half a minute, is there any nexus, so that I can give direction on the matter?

Sen. Gloria, your point is heard, and I will give a direction on it. You have raised an issue on broadcasting, and if I can recall, this issue was still raised last week because broadcasting is important. However, as the Chair right now, I may not know what has happened...

Your time was paused. You will not lose your minutes.

Sen. (Dr.) Khawale, what is your point of order? Would you like to be informed by Sen. Bonny Khalwale?

Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale.

You have one minute to finish that sentence.

A certified version of this Report next, followed by Sen. Mwinyihaji Mohamed Faki. They are commenting on the sufficiency of the report before I give a direction. A certified version of this Report next, followed by Sen. Mwinyihaji Mohamed Faki. They are commenting on the sufficiency of the report before...

Yes.

[The Temporary Speaker (Sen. Veronica Maina) left the Chair] [The Temporary Speaker (Sen. Wakili Sigei) in the Chair]

Serjeant-at-Arms, you may draw the Bar and close the doors. (The Bar was drawn and Doors closed) Please log in a fresh. Serjeant-at-Arms, please, look out for cards that are not attended. Hon. Senators, kindly, start voting now. Log out and log in again. (Voting in progress) Senate Majority Leader,...

Hon. Senators, in view of the numbers that we have in the House, this vote shall be deferred to the next sitting. (Putting of the Question on the Bill deferred) Next Order. THE FIRE AND RESCUE SERVICES PROFESSIONALS BILL (SENATE BILLS NO.55 OF 2023) DIVISION ELECTRONIC VOTING NOES: Nil ABSTENTIONS:...

Hon. Senators, the Standing Orders actually give powers for correction of errors. However, just for clarity and to make sure that you are certain of the vote you have given, I will direct that you--- (An Hon. Senator spoke off record) An Hon. Senator: Standing Order No.89. Once doubt is...

Sen. Cherarkey, thank you for your submissions, but I have given the direction. It is proceeding to a vote. Let us proceed to vote. Let us make it easy. (Loud consultations)

Hon. Senators, kindly resume your seats. Sen. Thang’wa and Sen. Mandago, resume your seats. Sen. Betty Montet, you are on the opposite side of the House. Kindly resume your seat. Broad-based Government, resume your seat on the Government side. That is welcome. Sen. Orwoba, resume your seat. This should take...

Let us confirm. (The Clerk consulted the Temporary Speaker (Sen. Veronica Maina) Sen. Faki, have you counted Sen. Beatrice Ogola who is voting on behalf of the Delegation from Homa Bay County? (Sen. Faki spoke off record) Just come to the Table and reconcile the names with the Clerks’ desk....

Thank you, Sen. Omogeni.

Order, Senators! Someone is

Hon. Senators, let me give guidance--- Several hon. Senators: On a point of order, Madam Temporary Speaker. Hon. Senators, I am the one who is guiding the proceedings of the House. Sen. Mundigi, resume your seat.

Sen. Mundigi, resume your seat or I get you out of the House. When I direct you to resume your seat, that is what you do. Do not argue when you have been given a direction from the Chair. Sen. Mundigi, you are out of order! I want to give...

Thank you, Sen. Sifuna. Sen. Gloria, I will give you a chance, but you should avoid booing when you do not get your chance as fast as you want it. Be respectful in the House.

Thank you, Sen. Gloria. The final point of order will come from Sen. Wambua and then I will give guidance on the issue.

Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale, I will give you a chance to raise a point of order. There are many more Senators here, from 47 counties and another 20 Senators; that is a total of 67 Senators. Let us give one another a chance. It is Sen. Wambua’s turn.

Hon. Senators, having listened to all points of order that have been raised by different Senators on this issue, that is Sen. Boni, Sen. Cherarkey, Sen. Enock Wambua, Sen. Gloria and Sen. Sifuna, and having been part of the proceedings that have happened in this House, I would like to...

Thank you, Senator. Proceed, Senate Majority Leader.

Madam Temporary Speaker, let me give an example of Clause 28 of the Bill. It speaks of an operator, which is a company that is carrying out the business of these extractives. Number one, it shall give first consideration to the employment of local persons who have requisite expertise or...

Madam Temporary Speaker, I am struggling to recognize my Majority Leader on that screen. You can see right now he is speaking and he has stopped speaking. I do not want to blame him, but I want to say that we have raised this issue of transmitting and our Senate...

I had concluded, Madam Temporary Speaker. Sen. Kinyua has done a good job. I thought I voted for commissioners to represent me and ensure that the systems work. However, I understand the challenges they are facing. We must put in concerted effort to ensure that we resolve this issue because...

Asante sana, Bi. Spika wa Muda, kwa kunipa nafasi hii ili nitoe mawazo yangu kuhusu Mswada huu unaopitisha sheria inayosema kwamba kila mtu anayewekeza kwa sekta ya kuchimba madini, ahakikishe ya kwamba wananchi wa kawaida wa sehemu hiyo wanapata nafasi yakujiendeleza. Jambo la kwanza ni kuwa sielewi kwa nini Mswada...

Madam Temporary Speaker, I know you have partly advised, but not ruled on this matter. However, I stand on this matter again under Standing Order No.245. What is going on in this House in regards to broadcasting is a very serious issue. Standing Order No.245 (2) says that the broadcasting...

Thank you, hon. Senator. Indeed, I had noted that the transmission was not being done properly. As you can see, it is delayed and reporting after the event. I believe it is not meeting the standards that are set out under Standing Order No.245 and the Sixth Schedule of the...

Sen. Karungo, I have already given a direction and it is the Chair who gives direction of what happens in the House. I believe this direction is good enough to guide the proceedings. For the Senators, I am equally concerned about the delayed transmission. This is because it is a...

Bi. Spika wa Muda, ni ile heshima kubwa niko nayo kama alivyosema na ndio maana ninakuita, Mama Spika. Lakini, nimekubali kusema, Bi. Spika. Jambo la kwanza ni kwamba Mswada huu hii ni nzuri sana sababu unahusisha shida ambayo tunapata. Nilikuwa nimetoa mfano wa Tana River, sehemu ya Charidende na Bangali...

Seneta Danson Mungatana, ni kama umekosolewa na umeelezwa inaitwa jasi. Endelea na Kiswahili sanifu kama unataka kutumia lugha ya Kiswahili. Sen. Orwoba, what is your point of order? Just resume your seat, Sen. Mungatana.

hichi cha Mswada huu mkono. Kwa sababu, tungependa wawekezaji wote kabla hawajapewa leseni na kaunti, wawe na mipangilio kamili inayosema kwamba mwananchi wa sehemu hio, atafaidika namna gani.Kipengele cha 26 kimenipendeza sana kuhusu Mswada huu. Kinasema ni lazima mwekezaji aweze kuweka mipangilio kamili ya kusema wananchi wa pale watapata kufundishwa...

20 per cent to the GDP. In Kenya, we have a lot of resources. It is only that we have not taken time to explore and encourage investors to invest in this sector.As a country, in Kwale, Tana River, Taita-Taveta counties, there are so many minerals. If you go to...

Madam Temporary Speaker, in this country, who has the capacity to drill oil? If you say that you are not inviting investors who have state-of-the-art equipment, oil and mineral detectors, we might end up having gold that is down the ground that is not helping the community. As we look...

Thank you, Senator. Sen. Kisang’, what is your intervention?

Clerk, you will confirm whether we have quorum. While you do so, I want to request the HANSARD to make sure that with respect to the interventions that were made on the broadcasting and the clarity of the broadcasting, the relevant Standing Order should be Standing Order No.245 and not...

Thank you, Senator. Sen. Faki proceed.

Thank you. Proceed, Sen. Wamatinga.

Hon. Senators, it is now going to 1.00 p.m., time to adjourn the House. The Senate therefore stands adjourned until later today, Wednesday, 24th July, 2024, at 2.30 p.m. Thank you. The Senate rose at 1.00 p.m.

Thank you, Senator. Senate Majority Leader proceed. Sen. Methu, you should not distract Sen. Cheruiyot.

Thank you, Senate Majority Leader. Proceed, Sen. Kisang’.

Hold it up, Sen. Kisang’. What is your point of order, Sen. Mandago?

There are many dialogues taking place right now, so let him speak from whichever side. Proceed, Sen. Kisang’.

Thank you, Sen. Kisang. Sen. Mandago--- (Sen. Mandago and Sen. Cheruiyot consulted loudly) Hon. Senators, can you consult in low tones? I am calling Sen. Mandago to attention and he is not even getting it. Sen. Mandago, under Standing Order No.255, the only seats reserved exclusively for use by specific...

Thank you, Senator. Sen. Tabitha Mutinda, I believe this Motion was moved by the Chair or are you the one who moved it? Sen. Tabitha, can you confirm whether you moved this Motion? It was Sen. Tabitha who moved it on behalf of the Chair. So, Sen. Peris proceed.

Proceed, Sen. Faki.

Thank you, Sen. Abass. Sen. Kavindu Muthama, proceed.

Thank you, Sen. Kavindu Muthama. Sen. Mandago, proceed.

Thank you, Senator. Sen. Omogeni.

Thank you Senator. Sen. Ali Roba, the Mover of the Motion, please, reply.

Yes, the putting of the question is deferred to a later date. I hope the Committee will do a follow up report upon the completion of the projects, so that they can report to the House. (Putting of the question on the Motion deferred) Next Order. ADOPTION OF REPORTS OF...

Hon. Senator, this Motion was moved by Sen. Kajwang’ and he had not finished moving the Motion. He had a balance of about 15 minutes before he could conclude moving the Motion, so it is premature. The Order is, therefore, deferred. Next Order. ESTABLISHMENT OF NATIONAL TEACHING AND REFERRAL HOSPITALS...