MAALIM, FARAH

No. Still, we do not have a clear guidance. Parliamentary business will be transacted on the divide of the minority or the majority under the broad-based government. You may continue.

Hon. Kaluma

Order, Hon. Murugara. You are out of order. Proceed, Hon. Kaluma.

This is a point of argument.

Order, Hon. Murugara.

What is your point of order, Hon. Murugara?

It is.

I will give you additional time, Hon. Kaluma. Do not worry. Hon. Murugara, proceed.

Order, Hon. Murugara. You repeating what Hon. Kaluma said. He is saying that even if Parliament were to give those regulations, they would still not vest those powers in the hands of the Judiciary but in a body that essentially has the powers to impose those sanctions. Am I right,...

Order, Hon. Members. Hon Kaluma, when this matter comes up for debate again, you will still have five minutes. ADJOURNMENT Hon. Members, the time being 1.00

Where is the Chairman of the Departmental Committee on Defence, Intelligence and Foreign Relations? He seems not to be in. The Whip of the Majority Party is also not here.

I direct that you have that answer in exactly two weeks’ time from today. Next Order. THE ANTI-MONEY LAUNDERING AND COMBATING OF TERRORISM FINANCING LAWS (AMENDMENT) BILL Hon. Kaluma, you had a balance of time. Order, Hon. Murugara.

Hon. Oundo.

On a point of order, Hon. Temporary Speaker. What is out of order Hon. Maalim? Hon. Temporary Speaker, is Hon. Kimani Kuria – whom I have a lot of respect for – right in insinuating that the money that was used to finance those bombings was being laundered? Can he...

On a point of information, Hon. Temporary Speaker.

I want to inform him that you need less than $2,000 to do any act of terrorism. You need to just buy an AK 47 - which can be found within the four boundaries of this country - sufficient bullets and a few grenades here and there for you to...

On a point of order, Hon. Temporary Speaker. Hon. Mogaka, Hon. Farah Maalim is on a point of order. Hon. Farah, you said that you are proceeding under Standing Order 96. Proceed. Yes. Standing Order 96 (1) says a Member who wishes to postpone to some future occasion the further...

Hon. Temporary Speaker, I rise to support the Motion on the appointment of Hon. Judith Pareno. I have known Hon. Judith Pareno for over integrity, of immense potential, a lawyer, and I am confident that she is going to do a fantastic job in the newly established State Department.I also...

Proceed, Hon. Murugara.

Hon. Pukose.

We shall have the Leader of the Majority Party, who will be followed by Hon. David Ochieng’.

Hon. David Ochieng’, before you contribute, I want to recognise in the Public Gallery the presence of students from P.C.E.A Chogoria Town Church in Thigaa of Maara Constituency in Tharaka-Nithi County. I think we have the Member for Tharaka in the House. He will represent the Member for Maara Constituency.(Laughter)

Yes, Hon. Ichung’wah. Proceed.

Hon. David Ochieng’, can I give an opportunity to the Leader of the Minority Party before you proceed? You had caught the Speaker's eye, but I am sure you respect your Leader of the Minority Party.

Thank you. You may proceed, Leader of the Minority Party.

Order, Leader of the Minority Party. You cannot mix two languages in one contribution. You either use Kiswahili or English. You started in English, finish in English.

Hon. David Ochieng’.

Member of Parliament for Kajiado Central.

Are you on a point of order, Hon. Atandi? Ordinarily, I am used to you sitting on this side of the Aisle, but now I can see you. Proceed, Hon. Atandi. What is your point of order?

Order! Hon. Members. Is that Hon. Member of Parliament for West Mugirango? (Hon. Stephen Mogaka spoke off the record) Okay, fair enough. Hon. Atandi, the Chair has a responsibility to protect the minority in the House. I know the Standing Order. I also know another Standing Order that says the...

Hon. Memusi, the matter before the House is not the ruling of the Supreme Court; the matter before the House is the Senate Bill. So, you either oppose that Bill or you support it, but you can use the Supreme Court in collaboration.

Hon. Sunkuiya, followed by Member of Parliament from West Mugirango Constituency.

Hon. Mogaka, followed by Hon. Waluke.

Hon. Waluke.

Fair enough. Under the

Hon. Members, I have a small communication to make. In view of the fact that Order No.12 has been rejected, ipso facto, Order No.13 (ii) is also not there. It is completely voided. Let us move to the next Order. COMMITTEE OF THE WHOLE HOUSE [The Temporary Speaker (Hon. Farah...

Proceed, Hon. Udgoon.

I will, first, give a chance to the Chairman of the Departmental Committee on Finance and National Planning.

Hon. Suleka Harun.

Hon. Irene Mayaka.

Next is Hon. Major (Rtd) Dekow.

Is the Member for Karachuonyo in the House? Proceed.

Hon. Members, the Member for Karachuonyo will have seven more minutes to contribute when this debate resumes. We are done for today. ADJOURNMENT Hon. Members, the time being 7.00

Hon. Baya, the Chair has given you an additional three minutes.

Next is the Member for Nyando.

Your time is up, Hon. Jared. Next is the Member for Kwanza.

Next is the Member for Kuria East, who will be followed by the Member for Gichugu.

What is your point of order, Member for Gichugu? You are hereby granted permission to raise your point of order.

Order, Hon. Member. You are out of order. That is not a point of order. (Laughter)

Fair enough. Hon. Kitayama.

Before I go to Hon. Wangwe and the Member for Kirinyaga, I recognise the presence of students from Kiatineni Secondary School from Masinga Constituency in Machakos. I welcome the students to the National Assembly. Is there any Member of Parliament from Ukambani in the Chamber now? Under the circumstances, the...

The students from Kiatineni

Mhe. Keynan, kuna kuunda kitu na kutunga sheria. Unaunda gari lakini unatunga sheria. There are students from Greenvale School from Kajiado. I welcome them in the Speaker’s Gallery. I notice Hon. Parashina is in the House. Give them some words of encouragement, including taking you on, if you do not...

I also welcome students from Gilgil Day Secondary School to the National Assembly. I do not know whether the Member for Gilgil or any of the Members from the area is in the House. The Member for Gilgil was in the Chamber a while ago. Hon. Martha Wangari, give some...

Hon. Wangwe. He will be followed by Hon. Njeri, Member for Kirinyaga County.

Hon. Njeri Maina.

Is Hon. Suzanne Kiamba in the House? If not, let us hear from Hon. (Dr) Racheal Nyamai. Is she present? If not, we will proceed with Hon. Bartoo, followed by Hon. Keynan.

Hon. Keynan. (Hon. Sarah Korere raised her hand) Hon. Korere, is your hand up? You do not have a card. Okay, you will be next.

Not in Dadaab.

Hon. Kore.

Hon. Kipchumba, Marakwet.

Fair enough. The Chair is tempted to stomp his feet. For one moment, I feel like I should have been on the other side to stomp my feet. I cannot do it from where I am. Thank you, Hon. Kipchumba. Next is Hon. Dick Maundu. Sorry! It is Hon. Maungu.

Before Hon. Korere takes the Floor, I want to recognise the presence of students from Greenview School, Kasarani Constituency, Nairobi City County, who are seated in the Public Gallery. (Applause)

I also recognise the presence of Roysambu Junior School, Roysambu Constituency, Nairobi City County. You are welcome. I will ask Hon. Owen Baya to say a word of encouragement to them because you are a leader in the House.

Finally, I also recognise the presence, in the Speakers' Gallery, of students from Loreto High School. Welcome to this institution called Parliament, the National Assembly. I will ask the lady Hon. Member sitting next to Hon. Martha Karua, to give the girls a word of encouragement.

Fair enough. It is not a point of order but proceed. You are a senior Member of this House and, indeed, a role model to most of the girls in the country. Proceed and give these ladies some words of encouragement.

I have had Hon. Martha Karua in my psyche for far too long because we came to Parliament on the same day in 1992. Nonetheless, I very much recognise and respect the indomitable lady, Hon. Martha Wangari. Please, say a word of encouragement too.

I want you to do this because we also have Father Makewa High School Makutano, Yatta Constituency and Thangira Umoja Secondary School, Maragua Constituency, Murang’a County in the Public Gallery. Kindly, address them both.

Hon. Korere Sarah, proceed and contribute to the Motion.

Hon. Parashina, Member for Kajiado South, followed by Hon. Marianne.

Hon. Marianne Kitany.

Leader of the Majority Party, followed by Hon. Agnes Pareiyo and Hon. Eve Obara.

Hon. Pareyio Agnes, followed by Hon. Obara Eve.

Hon. Deputy Speaker, I presume you are initially laying the Supplementary Estimates on the Table. After that, you will have to give notice of motion and reply as well. You can proceed.

Go ahead and give the notice of motion. NOTICE OF MOTION ADOPTION OF REPORT ON THE SECOND SUPPLEMENTARY ESTIMATES FOR THE FINANCIAL YEAR 2024/2025

Hon. Members, we have two minutes to the conclusion of the Morning Session. For convenience of the House, I will now adjourn the House. The question on the BPS will be put in the Afternoon Session. (Putting of the question deferred) Hon. Members, please rise. ADJOURNMENT Hon. Members, the time...

Hon. Rindikiri.

Hon. Mizighi, followed by Hon. CNN. But before you rise, I want to recognise the presence of Appleton Schools from Dagoretti North, who are in the Public Gallery. Is there any Member from Nairobi who can give a word of encouragement to the young learners? In their absence, I call...

Good. Hon. Mizighi.

Hon. Ngusya, followed by Hon. Abdul Haro and Hon. Tindi Mwale.

The Member for Mandera South.

Fair enough. I will give Hon. Abdul Haro an opportunity and then come to the ladies. Where is Hon. Tindi Mwale? Is he in the Chamber? After him, we will move to the gracious ladies—Hon. Jematiah and her neighbour— and then we will go to the other side.

Hon. Tindi Mwale, and then the ladies will have their bite. Please proceed.

Before I call on the ladies, I want Hon. Raso to be very brief because he has to go for a serious session.

Hon. Jematiah, followed by Hon. Kathambi and Hon. Lesuuda in that order. Do not worry. You will get a microphone. You will allow many Members of Parliament, including the Member of Gichugu, to have a bite at this if you take as few minutes as possible. Just take about five...

Order, Hon. Members. Hon. Talib Abubakar, you do not cross the Floor just like that. Go right to the end at the Bar and come back. Hon. Members, these rituals are part of our practice. We should respect and uphold. Proceed, Hon. Jematiah.

Hon. Naisula Lesuuda, if you take two or three minutes, you will allow Hon. Gichimu to have a bite at it. I wish I had all the time. Hon. Mwalyo and Hon. Bensuda, I respect you both. Please take one or two minutes and allow your colleagues to have a...

Hon. Gichimu, you have one minute. Hon. Mwalyo will also have one minute. Proceed, Hon. Gichimu.

Hon. Gichimu, please take less than a minute. There is a very important report that needs to be tabled. I will stop you at that. You will have one additional minute. Hon. Deputy Speaker, proceed and table the Paper.

Thank you. You realise that Finance Bills take precedence over any other business. Proceed and give notice of Motion. NOTICE OF MOTION ADOPTION OF THE REPORT ON THE 2025 MEDIUM-TERM DEBT MANAGEMENT STRATEGY

Hon. Gichimu, you have one minute. I will also give Hon. Bensuda one minute.

Order, Hon. Jayne Kihara. You did not have a card, and I got that information very late. I am looking at the list here. I know you are a senior Member, and I greatly respect you. You will have a moment. Please be patient; you will also have a bite....

Hon. Kihara, you have two minutes. We will then hear from Hon. Bensuda. Please give the microphone to Hon. Kihara.

Hon. Bensuda, you have a maximum of two minutes.

Hon. Tonui, take exactly one minute so that we adjourn this matter. Give Hon. Tonui one minute. Proceed.

Order, Hon. Tonui. This Bill is still coming up for further debate. When we come back to debate it, Hon. Tonui, you will have nine minutes. ADJOURNMENT Hon. Members, the time being 1.07

The Chairperson of the Departmental Committee on Education. I do not know what the practice is but, ordinarily, you should make

No way. Hon. Mogaka, he says he will give a response in 21 days. I thought that is too long. Hon. Osoro, this is not a matter between two Kisii Members of Parliament. I direct that you give a response within two weeks.

Hon. Mogaka, that is a presumption. You cannot anticipate recess before the Motion of Adjournment for recess is moved. It is fair. You are right that the Calendar of the House is there. Please give the Whip of the Majority Party, Hon. Osoro, the microphone.

Hon. Mogaka, how urgent is this matter?

Hon. Madam Lydia Haika is seeking a Ministerial Statement from the Departmental Committee on Finance and National Planning. Proceed.

The Whip of the Majority Party, I have noticed that the Chairperson of the Departmental Committee on Finance and National Planning is not here.

Fair enough. Hon. Geoffrey Ruku, Member for Mbeere North. PAYMENT OF LAST EXPENSE AND DEATH GRATUITY UNDER NHIF AND PUBLIC SERVICE SUPERANNUATION SCHEME

Is it Hon. Osoro or Hon. Baya? Who is going to respond to this? (Hon. Silvanus Osoro spoke off the record) Order, Hon. Osoro. Now that we have the Deputy Leader of the Majority Party, is this matter still in the purview of the Whip of the Majority Party?

Fair enough. You have said that the answer will be available in two weeks’ time. The presumption is that you will have it by the end of next week. We will not have gone for recess yet.

Yes, Hon. Ruku.

Yes, Hon. Baya.

Yes, Member for Kajiado North.

Fair enough. I direct that the statement be delivered within two weeks, which means next week.

Order, Deputy Leader of the Majority Party! The Member for Kisii County, Hon. Dorice Donya, is seeking a statement from the Departmental Committee on Transport and Infrastructure. UTILISATION OF THE FUEL LEVY FUND

Yes, Hon. Owen Baya, Deputy Leader of the Majority Party.

Order, Deputy Leader of the Majority Party. (Hon. Dorice Donya spoke off the record) Hon. Donya, you have made your point. What is it? What is the point of order? Proceed.

Order, Hon. Osoro! You are in the leadership of Parliament and there is an important issue that is being raised and questions directed at both of you and yet, you are engaged in another small kamukunji. Proceed, Hon. Kibagendi.

Yes, Hon. (Dr) Makali Mulu, what is your point of order?

Will you do so within two weeks? This is because after two weeks, the House will be in recess. That means you have to do so by next week.

I can take the point of order by Hon. Makali Mulu. What is your point of order?

I plead with you, Deputy Leader of Majority Party and Chief Whip of Majority Party; please, listen to the Hon. Member so that you can respond appropriately. Proceed, Hon. Makali Mulu.

Chief Whip of the Majority Party, can you give an undertaking on that roundtable meeting between the Member of Parliament, the Committee and the Ministry of Energy?

Fair enough.

This matter has generated a lot of interest. Can we listen to one or two more interventions? Let us have the Member for Funyula, and then Elachi Beatrice. Be very brief.

Hon. Elachi Beatrice.

Hon. Raso, do you also want to contribute on the same?

Proceed, Hon. Osoro

Hon. Owen Baya, do you want to add something?

Just before you weigh in on this matter, what is it Hon. Caroli?

Hon. Nyamai.

Hon. Baya, there is a lot of lamentation here. Members of the National Assembly are complaining and the Leadership of Parliament is also complaining. You should now take the proactive position of summoning the Board. In the absence of the Committee in charge, the leadership of the House has the...

Can you, with the leadership of the Majority and Minority Parties, use your office to summon them and engage them on that? If those of you in authority complain and every other Member of Parliament also complains, we will not go anywhere.

That matter is settled. Hon. Members, I want to appreciate the presence of students from a number of schools in the Public Gallery and the Speaker's Gallery. In the Speaker's Gallery, we have students from Machakos Girls’ High School. In the Public Gallery, we have students from Nairobi Comprehensive School...

Any Member from Nairobi to give a word of encouragement to Nairobi Comprehensive School? Yes, Hon. Elachi Beatrice.

Machakos Girls High School and Nairobi Comprehensive School, you have heard the words of encouragement from your honourable Members. We also have the University of Embu from Manyatta Constituency. Do we have any Members from Embu here? I will allow the Member of Parliament for Tharaka. You come from the...

Now that is done. Let us have someone for the Kigali branch of Mount Kenya University. I am made to understand that the Whip of the Majority Party is an alumnus of the university. Proceed to give your words of encouragement, Hon. Osoro.

Yes, what is your point of order? POINT OF ORDER REPORT ON THE HARDSHIP ALLOWANCE SCHEME

Order, Hon. Members. Order, Hon. Owen Baya and Hon. Osoro. A Member rising on a point of order is usually raising issues that have something to do with committees and their chairpersons. We do not have Cabinet Secretaries here. In their place is the leadership from the Majority Party. Please,...

Hon. Makilap and Hon. Raso, you both come from hardship areas. A matter on hardship areas is being raised. Hon. Faith Gitau and Hon. Ochieng, you can have your kamkunjis in restaurants or other places, but not on the Floor of the House. Proceed. (Laughter)

Order, Member for Nyando. You do not have to worry whether they are going to crawl, run, walk or fly. The issue is that you want the Report to be brought to the Floor of the House. Hon. Baya, how soon can you have that Report?

Fair enough. That is a fair undertaking. (Hon. Jared Okello spoke off the record) Order! You made your point. You took sufficient time. What is it? What are you raising again? Member for Mandera North. Please, give him the microphone. Use the ones at the back. What happened to the...

You have made your point. Hon. Memusi Kanchory, is it on the same? Is it on the same matter raised by the Member for Mandera North? Use the microphone next to you.

Fair enough. I hope Hon. Osoro and Hon. Baya will respond to all that. Let us also listen to Hon. Umul Kheir, who comes from Mandera. She is the Woman Representative of Mandera. Please, giver her the microphone.

You have made your point, Hon. Umul Kheir. Now, Hon. Osoro, you can… (An Hon. Member spoke off record) Well, do you want to respond to all of them, or you just want to respond to the power issue now? On the issue of the hardships, Hon. Baya has responded...

Very well. You have made your point. Hon. Osoro, respond to the two areas that have been mentioned comprehensively. The power outages in Mandera and, frankly, the whole country in this month of Ramadan. In my constituency, Dadaab – and I wish I was not on the Speaker’s Chair because...

Hon. Osoro is responding to two points of order that were raised. Proceed, Hon. Otiende Amollo.

Hon. Silvanus Osoro, I agree with you entirely that you are not empowered under our current system and Constitution when it comes to issues of water. All I want you to do is proceed and give a definitive undertaking on the report and the issue of power outages in Mandera...

What about in the interim? Given the fact that people are fasting in Mandera, give an undertaking right now on how you are going to engage the Kenya Power Company.

Excellent. Thank you. Next Order. (Hon. TJ Kajwang’ spoke off the record) Order, Hon. TJ Kajwang’! The Temporary Speaker has already called out the next Order. THE ANTI-MONEY LAUNDERING AND COMBATING OF TERRORISM FINANCING LAWS (AMENDMENT) BILL THE NATIONAL POLICE SERVICE COMMISSION (AMENDMENT) BILL There was a Member who had...

Okay. Let us have Hon. Irene Mayaka.

Fair enough. Hon. Mayaka, proceed.

Hon. Kajwang’, right behind you is a Member interested in debating. There are Members who are interested to contribute to this debate. The rules are very clear. (Loud consultations)

Hon. Mutuse, I can see your name here. Are you here for something else or you want to contribute to this Bill?

Hon. Basil.

Thank you Hon. Temporary Speaker, for giving me this opportunity to weigh in on this issue. As a son of a policeman, I grew up in police lines. My father was recruited into the colonial police force in 1956. Often, I visit the house where we grew up with my...

Hon. Temporary Speaker, during those days, I remember police officers used to be given ration by the Government, a rollover from the colonial practice. They used to be given canned beef, and sardines (tin fish) which were collected for every family from a Government distributor. For the officers from pastoralist...

Member for Kesses.

Hon. Kosgei, Nominated Member.

The Member of Parliament for Keiyo South, Hon. Gideon Kimaiyo.

Hon. (Dr) Kimaiyo, I hate to interrupt you. However, it is 6.00 O'clock. Actually, it is 6.00 O’clock and 1 minute. When this debate resumes, you will have eight more minutes. We were meant to have a Motion of Adjournment at exactly 6.00 O'clock. Under the circumstances, I am going...

Hon. Ariko, I have looked at the Standing Orders and the rules on a Motion for Adjournment on a matter of urgent national importance are very clear. You strictly have 10 minutes to speak to it - I overstepped. Times have changed and you have done your bit. Hon. Naomi,...

Okay, I presume there are Members who would like to contribute to this Motion. If you wish to do so, raise your hand so that I can see you. Hon. Nanok, Member for Turkana West.

Next is the Member for Turkana East. Please, proceed. Give the microphone to the Member for Turkana East.

As moving and as important as it is, unfortunately, my hands are tied. I do not have any prerogative to give you more time. However, I share your grief. Next is the County Women Representative for Turkana County.

Unfortunately, my hands are tied. I cannot give you more time. Member for Turkana Central, Hon. Emathe.

I would have loved to do so. You know that very well. I am one person who shares your grief. It is no mean thing. The people of Turkana are suffering and I feel your pain more than anyone else. Please, continue.

Is Hon. Ruku in? I have a list here. Member for Kuresoi South, before you speak, you still have your five minutes. I just want to make a clarification about adjournment on a matter of urgent national importance. Standing Order 33 (4) says – “No Member speaking on a matter...

Next is Hon. Kipchumba, who will be followed by Hon. Lotodo. I am sorry, Hon. Kipchumba will be followed by Hon. Moroto. I was with Hon. Lotodo in the House many years back.

I am cognisant of what you have just said. All those three countries put together are about 76,000 square kilometres. Turkana County has 70,000 square kilometres.

Does it have 77,000 square kilometres? It is bigger by 1,000 square kilometres. We always read this in newspapers hence we are conscious of these things. The people of Turkana face attacks from Uganda by the Karamoja; from South Sudan by the Ndungiro, Taposa, and Dinka; from Ethiopia by the...

I think there is a problem with your microphone. You might move to another microphone. You are not going to lose your time. I am telling the Clerks-at-the-Table to make sure that you have all your minutes left. Go somewhere else. Come forward.

Yes, proceed.

Next is Hon. Naomi, who will be followed by the Chairperson of the Departmental Committee on Administration and Internal Security.

Next is the Chairperson of the Departmental Committee on Administration and Internal Security, who will be followed by Hon. Kiborek.

Chairman, the attack on Turkana fishermen by Ethiopian militias has been with us for a long time. With only one patrol boat and eight coast guard officers, how serious is the government about addressing this issue? As the Chairman of the Departmental Committee on Administration and Internal Affairs, you need...

Fair enough. Well taken, and the Temporary Speaker would have loved to be on the other side to contribute on this one, but the rules do not allow. That is why this serious intervention demand has to come from the Chair one way or the other. Hon. Kiborek, unfortunately, we...