David Ouma Ochieng'

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’) Thank you Members, for your industriousness and patience during the Committee of the whole House. I call on the Temporary Chairlady to report to the House.

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’)Give him a microphone.

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’) Thank you, Leader of the Majority Party. We will wait for Members to come on Tuesday afternoon and do the needful.

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’) Putting of the Question on the Report of the House on the National Lottery Bill is deferred to Tuesday afternoon next week. ADOPTION OF SESSIONAL PAPER NO.2 OF 2023: THE NATIONAL TAX POLICY The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’) Members, debate on this Motion...

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’) Give him a minute.

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’) The Leader of the Majority Party and Member for Kikuyu. We keep losing Kikuyu as a constituency.

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’) Leader of the Majority Party, I think the National Assembly was a party to this suit. Advise them to appeal.

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’) I have actually given you ten minutes and you have exhausted the ten already. You have one minute to finish.

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’) Thirty seconds.

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’) Well said, Leader of the Majority Party. I need to inform you that all of us are waiting for the day you will announce the members of the State capture commission. You keep on talking about it. Everyone is asking when it will be...

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’) Nafasi hii itaenda kwa Mbunge wa Kitui Rural, Mhe. David Mboni.

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’) Member for Kitui Rural, your time is up. This is now the chance for the Member for Mandera West.

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’) Member for Kaiti.

The Temporary Speaker (Hon David Ochieng’) Next is the Member for Kisii, Hon. Donya Dorice. 23rd November 2023 NATIONAL ASSEMBLY DEBATES 53

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’) Thank you. Member for Laikipia East. The next to speak is Hon. Mwangi Kiunjuri. Your microphone has a problem. Use the one in front of you.

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’) You actually have one more minute.

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’) Thank you. Peugeot 504.

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’) Thank you. Next is Hon. Farah Maalim, EGH.

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’) How do you define ‘syndicated loans’ again? Did you say they are loans that end up in pockets of individuals?

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’) Hon. Farah, you have one more minute.

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’) There is pressure from other Members to speak. One more minute, Sir.

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’) I have no comment on that, Hon. Farah. Next is Hon. Salasya.

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’) Hon. Farah, I order that you sit and listen to Hon. Salasya before you leave.

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’) There are two Members remaining who want to contribute to the Motion. I request the next speaker to mind the Member speaking after him, so that all of us can contribute. Member for Sotik.

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’) Member for Rangwe, please, make your point in two minutes.

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’) Hon. Members, there being no other Member interested in speaking to the Motion, I request the Mover to reply.

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’) The Question on this Motion will be put the next time the House sits. (Putting of the Question deferred) ADJOURNMENT The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’) Hon. Members, the time being 7.00

Hon. Temporary Chairman. The Temporary Chairman (Hon. David Ochieng’)Hon. Rindikiri.

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’) Hon. Oluoch.

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’) Thank you. Hon. Melly.

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’) Hon. Oundo.

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’) Hon. Oundo, is that a comment or a question.

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’) Okay, Hon. Melly. He says your left hand has given to your right hand and then you have put your right hand on the back.

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’) No, he listened to you. He has said in the education sector, the right hand has not taken away from the left hand. In fact, both hands have received Ksh5 billion. (Programmes 0505000, 0507000 and 0508000 agreed to) (Vote 1064 agreed to) VOTE 1065...

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’) Hon. Junet, we are serious.

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’) Member for Molo.

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’) Thank you. (Programmes 0201000, 0203000, 0204000, 0205000 and 0216000 agreed to) (Vote 1092 agreed to) VOTE 1093 - STATE DEPARTMENT FOR SHIPPING AND MARITIME AFFAIRS VOTE 1094 - STATE DEPARTMENT FOR HOUSING AND URBAN DEVELOPMENT 16th November 2023 NATIONAL ASSEMBLY DEBATES 51 The Temporary...

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’) Can I have the microphone? Let us have Hon. Kuria Kimani.

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’) Hon. Chairperson, I do not know whether you are done. You have one minute to finalise your point.

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’) Thank you very much, Hon. Kimani. The next chance goes to Hon. Dekow.

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’) Let us have Hon. Sunkuli if he is in the House.

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’) Next is Hon. Thuku.

Hon. Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’) Let us hear Hon. Elachi. 26th October 2023 NATIONAL ASSEMBLY DEBATES 32

Hon. Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’) Hon Thuku says that as much as you have five secondary schools, he has 40 secondary schools and 85 primary schools. You can imagine what he has to go through. The Member for Buuri.

Hon. Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’) Member for Sotik.

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’) This chance now goes to the Member for Narok North. Is the Member for Igembe North in the House? Go ahead, Hon. Pareyio. 26th October 2023 NATIONAL ASSEMBLY DEBATES 34

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’) Hon. Members, you know how I preside over the proceedings of the House. Stop walking to the Chair. Hon. Mulyungi walked to the Chair to ask for a chance to speak, yet he is the next in line. He has been queuing for all...

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’) Thank you. Member for Sirisia.

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’) Thank you. Member for Butula. Hon. Waluke, in future you should contribute while looking up a bit so you can see the light.

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’) Thank you. Member for Bomet County, Hon. Linet Chepkorir.

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’) Thank you. Member for Igembe South, Hon. Paul Mwirigi.

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’) Thank you. Let us have the Member for Suba South. 26th October 2023 NATIONAL ASSEMBLY DEBATES 37

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’) Thank you. Member for Kwale.

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’)

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’) Thank you. Member for Ndaragwa.

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’) Thank you. Member for Kaiti.

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’) Thank you. Let us have the Member for Loima. Is that the Member for Loima? Do we have the Member for Loima in the House? He is not there. The next in line is the Member for Central Imenti. 26th October 2023 NATIONAL ASSEMBLY...

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’) Member of Parliament for Rangwe.

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’) You will agree with me that Dr Gogo has spoken for almost all of us on this matter. This is one of the days when we decide this is a very good point to contribute. Let me give this chance to the Member for...

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’) There is a point of order from the Deputy Whip of the Majority Party.

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’) Allow her to move her point of order and then we can do what is required.

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’) Is it the mood of the House that the Mover be called upon to reply?

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’) Can I put the Question?

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’) Looking at the list I have here, I only have four Members who want to contribute to this Bill. I will use the same Standing Order as Hon. Naomi to give these four opportunities and then I will call upon the Mover to reply....

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’) Hon. Lekumontare, we cannot see your name. You could have come ahead of Hon. Ngikolong, but I cannot see you either on the map or board. Put your card again. Go ahead, Hon. Ngikolong.

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’) Thank you very much. Hon. Jackson Lekumontare.

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’) Thank you. Hon. Eng. Nebart Muriuki. If we could avoid repetition, we would really move very well.

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’) Thank you. Next is the Member for Moyale.

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’) Hon. Umulkher Harun.

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’) Hon. Timothy Toroitich.

Hon. Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’) Finally, before the Mover replies, this chance goes to the Member for Seme, Hon. Nyikal.

Hon. Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’) Thank you. Leader of the Majority Party, there is a ranking Member in the House. I do not know if you have heard his voice in a long time. I want to allow him to do two minutes, and then you will speak. Hon....

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’) Leader of the Majority Party, this is now your chance to reply.

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’) Thank you very much. Members, as the Leader of the Majority Party has said, we will defer the putting of the Question on that matter to the next Sitting. Next Order. (Putting of the Question deferred) 26th October 2023 NATIONAL ASSEMBLY DEBATES 48 ADOPTION...

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’) What is out of order, Hon. Baya? The Leader of the Majority Party, do you have something to say? Give him the microphone.

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’) Very well. Hon. Members, if that is the case, there being no other business to transact, I take this opportunity to wish our candidates, who are sitting for their examinations next week the very best. I hope that they had time to revise well....

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’) Thank you. Hon. Pukose.

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’) What is your point of order?

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’) Hon. Members, Hon. Osoro has proposed that we reduce the time for debating on this Bill, that is, the Facilities Improvement Financing Bill No. 43 of 2023, from the normal time to five minutes per Member contributing. (Question, that speaking time be reduced to...

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’) Hon. John Mutunga.

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’) Deputy Leader of the Minority Party. Member for Kathiani Constituency.

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’) Hon. Nyikal.

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’) Give the former Principal Secretary one minute.

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’) Hon. Martin Wanyonyi. Is the Hon. Dekow Dalo in the House? Is that you? (Hon. Dekow Mohammed spoke off the record) Is that the Member for Garissa Township? Right after Hon. Martin.

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’) I am grappling with what to do with the orange women high table. I do not know what to do because they are all lined up one after the other. I will give chances to two of them so that all of you share...

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’) Member for Narok North.

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’) Member for Mosop.

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’) Is the Member for Igembe Central, Hon. Daniel Karitho in the House? Let us have the Member for Bureti.

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’) Member for Mombasa County.

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’) Asante sana. Turudi Nairobi na twende Dagoretti Kaskazini.

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’) Hon. Mbai, you will have to do something in a better way. Sorry for the interruption. Please, do something.

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’)The Clerks-at-the-Table, you are

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’) Member for Lamu East.

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’) Member for Marsabit. Please, give her five minutes. You alerted Hon. Ruweida when she still had two minutes so she had to wind up earlier.

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’) Member for Ndhiwa.

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’) Where have you been fighting?

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’) Hon. Makilap, what is out of order? Wait for the microphone. Hon. Owino, resume your seat for a minute.

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’) How did you gauge the mood of the House, Hon. Makilap?

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’) Thank you. Order Members. Hon. Makilap has risen on his feet and claimed that we call the Mover to reply.

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’)

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’) Hon. Ruku, resume your seat.

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’) Hold on. Hon. Members, this is something that is very simple. You do not have to spend any energy or emotions on it. What Hon. Makilap has done is what is done normally. (Hon. Silvanus Osoro spoke off the record) Hon. Osoro. What Hon....

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’) Yes, Hon. Fatuma.

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’) Mover.

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng) Thank you very much Hon. Baya. For obvious reasons, I will call the next Order. (Putting of the Question deferred) THE PRIMARY HEALTHCARE BILL The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng) Who is moving? Is it the Majority Whip? Go ahead.

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’) Hon. Osoro, what are you talking about? Hon. Irene speaks very good Luo.

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’) Hon. Ruku, you are allowed to ask Hon. Pukose for notes.

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’) Hon. Ruku, you have been asked to second the Bill. I order that you proceed to second it.

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’) Hon. Ruku, would you repeat again that you second the Bill?

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’) Thank you. (Question proposed) The first contributor will be Hon. Pukose.

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’) Hon. Anthony Thomas Oluoch, go ahead.

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’) Hon. Oluoch, what is out of order?

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’) Thank you. Is that the mood of the House that the Mover be called upon to reply?

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’) Hon. Oluoch, you have had your day. This is my ruling on that matter. Based on what I have heard from Hon. Oluoch as his reasons for calling upon the Mover to reply, I direct that his standing up on Standing Order 95 is...

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’) Hon. Anthony Oluoch.

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’) Member for Migori, Hon. Fatuma Mohammed.

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’) Hon. Mbai, I heard you complain. The last time I called you, you were in another world. This is your chance.

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’) Thank you. Member of Baringo County. (Several Members raised hands) Members, refrain from carrying up your hands because I have a board I am looking at.

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’) The Member for Nambale.

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’) Thank you. Hon. Mayaka.

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’) That is in order. Go ahead, Hon. Mayaka.

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’) Member for Seme.

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’) Thank you. Next is the Member for Sotik, who will be followed by the Member for Trans Nzoia.

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’) Thank you. Member of Parliament for Trans Nzoia County.

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’) Thank you. Member of Parliament for Nakuru County.

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’) Thank you. Member for Igembe Central, proceed.

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’) Hon. Osoro, even the Whip is required to go back to the Bar and bow, then come back down. (Hon. Silvanus Osoro went to the Bar and bowed to the Chair)

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’) Thank you. Member for Kisumu West, proceed.

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’) Hon. Wilberforce Oundo of Funyula Constituency. I hope that you take a short time like other Members.

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’) Hon. Dorothy Ikiara.

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’) Hon. Kiarie, you cannot shout ‘point of order’ from your seat. I cannot see your request. What is out of order? Is that the Member for Nyeri Town? (Hon. John Kiarie spoke off the record) That is the Member for Gatundu North, Hon. Kururia.

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’) So, what is your point of order?

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’) You will allow the Member on the Floor to finish her contribution.

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’) Hon. Farah, we are dealing with a very difficult situation. Have one minute then. And I mean one minute.

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’)Order, Members. Hon. Farah,

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’) Thank you very much. Hon. Members, the Member for Gatundu North, Hon. Kururia Elijah Njore Njoroge, rose on his feet and claimed that we should call the Mover to reply. Is it the mood of the House that we call upon the Mover to...

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’) Shall I put the question on that matter?

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’) Hon. Members, having confirmed that we are quorate, I will now put the Question. (Question put and agreed to) (The Bill was read a Second Time and committed to Committee of the whole House) ADJOURNMENT The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’) Hon. Members, the...

Hon. Temporary Chairman (Hon. David Ochieng') Hon. Leader of the Majority Party, will you resume your seat? 27th September 2023 NATIONAL ASSEMBLY DEBATES 53 (Loud consultations)

Hon. Temporary Chairman (Hon. David Ochieng') Thank you. Let us do so. This chance will go to Hon. Pukose to clarify the issues of amendments that were being raised and about the variances.

Hon. Temporary Chairman. The Temporary Chairman (Hon. David Ochieng’)Thank you. Finally, Hon. Chairman.

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’) Thank you. (Question of the amendment proposed) (Question, that the words to be left out be left out, put and agreed to) (Question, that the words to be inserted in place thereof be inserted, put and agreed to) (Clause 7 as amended agreed to)...

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’) Thank you. Hon. Gikaria, this is your chance.

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’) Thank you. Hon. Chairperson, do you still want to say something on this?

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’)(Clause 25 as amended agreed to)Thank you.(Question, that the words to be left out be left out, put and agreed to)Clause 26 The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’) Hon. Chairperson, proceed.

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’) Thank you. (Question of the amendment proposed) The Hon. Oluoch, proceed.

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’) Thank you. Hon. Oundo, one minute.

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’) Hon. Dawood.

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’) Hon. Chairperson, respond to that quickly.

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’) Thank you. (Question, that the words to be left out be left out, put and agreed to) 27th September 2023 NATIONAL ASSEMBLY DEBATES 70 The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’)(Question, that the words to be inserted in place thereof be inserted, put and agreed...

Hon. Temporary Chairman. The Temporary Chairman (Hon. David Ochieng’)Okay. I will listen to one person who has not spoken this evening; Hon. Shinali.

Hon. Temporary Chairman. The Temporary Chairman (Hon. David Ochieng’)Thank you. (Question, that the new clause be read a Second Time, proposed) (Question, that the new clause be read a Second Time, put and agreed to) (Question, that the new clause be added to the Bill, put and agreed to) Hon....

Hon. Temporary Chairman (Hon. David Ochieng’) This can go either way, Hon. Members. Hon. Wangwe.

Hon. Temporary Chairman (Hon. David Ochieng’) Mover.

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’) I will allow the Chairperson to move the amendments. In fact, he has taken into account what was raised by Hon. Kajwang’ in the morning. He is proposing a further amendment. After he moves, if you can convince him to adopt your amendment, I...

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’) Hon. Millie.

Hon. Temporary Chairman (Hon. David Ochieng’)Thank you.(Question, that the word to be left out be left out, put and agreed to)(New Section 992A as amended agreed to)(Question, that the words to be inserted in place thereof be inserted, put and agreed to)(Provisions relating to the Companies Act, No.17 of 2015...

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’) Hon. Kajwang’ what is it? I want to propose the Question first and then you can have a word. (Question of the amendment proposed) Hon. Kajwang’