David Ouma Ochieng'

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’) Hon. Members, I confirm that we have quorum. We can proceed. Call out the Orders. COMMUNICATION FROM THE CHAIR PRESENCE OF DELEGATION FROM PARLIAMENT OF UGANDA IN SPEAKER’S ROW The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’) Take your seats. Hon. Members, I wish to make...

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’) Next Order. (Loud consultations)

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’) I have also been to Rusinga Girls High School. Chairlady of Constitution Implementation Oversight Committee, Hon. Wamuchomba, Member for Githunguri, you have business in the House this afternoon. I hope you are aware. I assume that you are the Chairlady of the Constitution Implementation...

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’) Thank you. You can lay the Papers. (Hon. Gathoni Wamuchomba laid the Papers on the Table) Next is the Chairperson of the Departmental Committee on Agriculture and Livestock.

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’) Thank you. Proceed to lay. (Hon. (Dr) John K. Mutunga laid the Paper on the Table) Next is the Chairperson of the Departmental Committee on Trade, Industry and Cooperatives, Hon. Gakuya. He seems not to be in. Hon. Marianne, are you the one standing...

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’) Proceed to lay. (Hon. Marianne Kitany laid the Paper on the Table) Finally, let us have Hon. Murugara, the Chairperson of the Departmental Committee on Justice and Legal Affairs.

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’) Next Order. NOTICE OF ADJOURNMENT ON A MATTER OF URGENT NATIONAL IMPORTANCE IMPLEMENTATION OF THE SOCIAL HEALTH INSURANCE FUND The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’) Member for Rangwe, move your notice of Motion. 12th November 2024 NATIONAL ASSEMBLY DEBATES 3

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’) Order, Hon. Members! Kindly consult in low tones. Hon. Members, this notice of Motion is to discuss the status of SHIF. I confirm that the Member has the requisite support and, therefore, I direct that the debate on this matter begins at six o'clock...

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’) Well said, but there is nothing like “SHU.” Hon. Wamuchomba, what is out of order? If it is about the timing, then the point has been ably made by Hon. Junet. We need to hold our horses.

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’) Thank you. Hon. Kangogo.

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’) I will make a ruling on this. Hon. Members, looking at the Order Paper, I direct that the notice given by Hon. (Dr) Lilian Gogo, the Member for Rangwe, will be considered at five o'clock or upon the conclusion of Order No.11, whichever comes...

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’) Thank you. I saw the Chairperson of the concerned Committee here. This request is directed to the Departmental Committee on Administration and Internal Security. Yes, Hon. Tongoyo.

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’) Next is the Member for Nyaribari Masaba. INSECURITY IN NYARIBARI MASABA

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’) Hon. Tongoyo.

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’) Thursday, next week makes a lot of sense. Not two weeks. Thank you. Hon. Manduku, it is Thursday, next week. (Hon. Julius Sunkuli spoke off the record) There is nothing out of order on that issue Hon. Sunkuli. What is out of order?

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’) Hon. Tongoyo, you have heard. Hon. Sunkuli say that they have nothing to do with donkeys. Do not involve them on issues of donkeys. That is well said. Hon. Manduku, take it up with the Chairperson. He says he will bring a Statement on...

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’) Thank you. Chairperson of Departmental Committee on Defence, Intelligence and Foreign Relations. Is the Vice-Chairperson of the Committee or the Leader of the Majority Party present? This is a very urgent matter that requires immediate action. We cannot see the Chairperson or the Vice-Chairperson...

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’) Hon. Member from Kiambu, take it up with the Whip of the Majority Party so that the relevant Committee is informed accordingly.

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’) Next is the Member for Kitui Central, Dr Makali Mulu. STATUS OF COMPENSATION TO MASTER SIMON MUEMA FOR SEVERE INJURIES SUSTAINED FROM ELECTROCUTION

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’) Thank you. This request is directed to the Chairperson of the Departmental Committee on Energy. Is the Chairperson present? I can see Hon. Kawaya, or is it Hon. Vincent Musau, in the House. Go ahead.

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’) The next one week is great. Hon. Makali, I think that is fair. Next is the Member for Kipipiri. The Questions appearing on the Order Paper of today as No.5 and No.6 are deferred to a later date. (Questions deferred) Go ahead. POINT OF...

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’) It is very serious. (Loud consultations)

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’) Thank you very much. That is a fair comment on the matter. 12th November 2024 NATIONAL ASSEMBLY DEBATES 10

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’) Thank you. We are not going to debate Questions or Statements this afternoon. The next request for a Statement is by the nominated Member, Hon. Irene Mayaka. DECLARATION OF CERTAIN AREAS IN NYAMIRA COUNTY AS PROTECTED AREAS AND NATIONAL MONUMENTS

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’) Thank you. Hon. Kawanjiku, as you walked in, I am sure you heard the displeasure of the membership and leadership about the attendance of the chairpersons and vice-chairpersons of committees in the House. I hope you heard the displeasure and you will deal with...

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’) Thank you. Before I go to responses, there is a... (The Temporary Speaker consulted with the Clerks-at-the-Table) There are responses to requests for Statements to be issued by the Departmental Committee on Transport and Infrastructure. The first response would be to a Statement requested...

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’) Order! I am informed that Hon. Tandaza is not in the House and I do not know whether he assigned that to any other Member. If not, you can table the response and he will look at it when he comes to the House.

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’) You are going to do that next. Is the Member for Saboti in the House? Hon. Amisi? These responses will be tabled accordingly and Members thereof lose any right to come and demand them on the Floor of the House. The responses to those...

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’) You do not have any minutes to donate to anybody. Hon. Members, you have heard what Hon. Toto has said happened at Longisa. All of us watched the news in horror. We will not debate this, but I will give a chance to the...

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’) Thank you, Hon. Members. That marks the end of Questions and Statements. I have been moved by the Chairman of the National 12th November 2024 NATIONAL ASSEMBLY DEBATES 13 The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’)Government Constituencies Development Committee that he has an announcement to...

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’) Thank you. (Hon. Kenneth Tungule raised his hand) Does the Hon. Member raising his hand not have a card? (Hon. Kenneth Tungule spoke off the record) I cannot see you on the screen since you do not have a card. Go ahead.

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’) Next Order. THE KENYA ROADS BOARD (AMENDMENT) BILL The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’) Hon. Members, debate on the Second Reading of this Bill was concluded. Therefore, it is time to decide. (Question put and agreed to) (The Bill was read a Second Time...

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’) Before you move, does the Board then have five members or there are other members of the Board?

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’) Hon. Members, join me in recognising and welcoming students from Ngoswani Boarding Community School, Narok West Constituency in Narok County. They are welcome to follow the proceedings of the House this evening. (Hon. TJ Kajwang’ spoke off the record) Hon. TJ, are you contributing?

Hon. Temporary Chairman. The Temporary Chairman (Hon. David Ochieng’)I would allow any intervention, if there is any. Yes, Hon. Milemba.

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’)Yes,

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’) Hon. Thuku.

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’) The Quorum Bell be rung for 10 minutes. (The Quorum Bell was rung) Order, Members. Resume your seats. I can confirm that we have quorum. Therefore, we can proceed. The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’) Hon. Kawaya, Member for Mwala, you have a petition....

Hon. Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’) Thank you. Petitions are usually committed to the Public Petitions Committee. I can see the Chairman, Hon. Mbai, is smiling. I hope you do justice to this particular Petition. I see no interventions on it. Let us move to the next Order. Hon. Temporary...

Hon. Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’) Thank you. Well done. Next Order. QUESTIONS AND STATEMENTS REQUESTS FOR STATEMENTS Hon. Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’) Is Hon. Cecilia, the Member for Turkana County in the House? Go ahead. URGENT INTERVENTIONS FOR RESIDENTS AFFECTED BY CROCODILE 18th October 2024 NATIONAL ASSEMBLY DEBATES...

Hon. Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’) Is Hon. Lochakapong in the House? The Chairperson of the Departmental Committee on Regional Development, the request for a Statement is accordingly committed to that Committee. I can see the Member for Turkana Central. I cannot see your card. Please press the intervention button.

Hon. Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’) Yes, Hon. Emathe. Go ahead.

Hon. Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’) Hon. Mbai. 18th October 2024 NATIONAL ASSEMBLY DEBATES 3

Hon. Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’) Thank you. Is Hon. Mbiuki or any Member of the Departmental Committee on Tourism and Wildlife in the House? I would like to order that this Statement be processed jointly by the Departmental Committee on Regional Development and the Departmental Committee on Tourism and...

Hon. Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’) The Chairman of the Departmental Committee on Administration and Internal Affairs, this is a very straightforward request. I am sure you have listened to it. How soon can you respond?

Hon. Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’)Liaise with the Member. 18th October 2024 NATIONAL ASSEMBLY DEBATES 4 STATUS OF EVICTION OF GONA FAMILY FROM LAND REGISTERED LR NO. MN11783 BY MAHMOUD ON 11TH OCTOBER 2024

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’) Hon. Chonga, you have heard the response? Go ahead.

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng') That is very well said. This is a straightforward matter. It would be okay if the Chairman could help Hon. Chonga and his constituents get the body buried. As for now, I do not know what you would want to say about that as...

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’) Hon. Chairman, the Ministry of Interior and National Administration will have a role to play if there is no order barring the burial and someone stopping the burial. Hon. Chonga says that there is no court order barring the burial. You need to get...

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’) The Member on the aisle, take a seat.

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’) Let Hon. Wanami have the first bite because it was his Statement. Thank you.

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’) You do not have a committee.

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’) You know Kenyans do not… When you put abbreviations and say ‘my committee’…

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’) Proceed to wind up.

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’) That is not your role at all. You know that very well. Next is the Member for Uasin Gishu.

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’) Hon. Kakai.

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’) Thank you. Hon. Oundo, two minutes.

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’) Thank you. Member for Kesses, two minutes also.

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’) Hon. Emathe you have one minute.

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’) Thank you, Hon. Member. Hon. Mogaka.

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’) Thank you. Hon. Pukose.

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’) Hon. Pukose, I will add you 30 seconds to wind up your point.

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’) Member for Chesumei.

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’) Hon. Caroli Omondi.

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’) Order, Hon. Caroli. Can you withdraw what you just said? What did you say?

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’) Order, Hon. Caroli. This chance goes to the Member for Nairobi.

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’) Hon. Melly. You will have the last word on this.

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’) Hon. Members, your presiding Chair for today went to Moi University. As I sit here listening to the Report by Hon. Melly, I can tell you for sure that the Report is so underwhelming. There is nothing you will achieve with that Report. What...

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’) Hon. Donya.

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’) I think so much has been said about Moi University so far. Hon. Chairman, you have your work cut out and I wish you all the best. Before we go to the next Order, I want to give the Hon. Member for Kisii County...

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’) Hon. Osoro.

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’) Is it true that he left in 2013?

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’) The daughter is not dead.

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’) Hon. Members, I will give three Members two minutes each, for a chance to speak. Hon. Onchoke!

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’) Hon Melly, you wanted to say something on this subject.

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’) Hon. Mogaka.

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’) Hon. Pukose.

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’) I knew Hon. Opore. He was a gentleman and an old man of the House. Let us observe a moment of silence. (The House observed a moment of silence) 18th October 2024 NATIONAL ASSEMBLY DEBATES 17 The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’)May the Lord...

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’) Member of Parliament for Soy.

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’) Thank you, Hon. Temporary Speaker. Member for Endebess.

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’) Member for Butula.

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’) Go ahead.

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’) Well said. You came prepared for this debate. Is the Member for Central Imenti in the House? He already spoke. The Member for Tharaka also spoke. The Member for Wajir North, Hon. Ibrahim Saney.

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’) Hon. Mayaka, what is it?

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’) Is the mood of the House that we call the Mover to reply? The Hon. Sonko Nelson Koech, you have a chance to reply.

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’) Your request that the decision on this Motion be made the next time it is put on the Order Paper is acceded to; we will vote on it when it appears next in the Order Paper. (Putting of the Question deferred) Next Order. THE...

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’) Member for Buuri.

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’) Thank you. Hon. Millie.

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’) Well said. We have time to listen to the Member for Githunguri.

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’) Well said. Next is the Member for Kaiti.

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’) Thank you. Member for Mukurweini.

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’) Thank you too. Hon. Members, there being no further interest on this Bill, I call upon the Mover to reply.

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’) Thank you very much. I would have loved to give Hon. Kitur a chance but what will he be contributing on? You have already made your closing argument. You have replied. You should have given him a chance before you started replying. Hon. Kitur,...

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’) What is your point of order, Member for Suba South?

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’) Hon. Members, the matter raised by the Member for Suba South is self-explanatory. As you know, when that happens, my hands get tied. I order that the Quorum Bell be rung for 10 minutes. (The Quorum Bell was rung) Hon. Temporary Speaker (Hon. David...

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’) Member for Nairobi County.

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’) Thank you. Member for Uasin Gishu County.

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’) Next is the Member for Bobasi.

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’) Thank you. Lastly, let us have the Member for South Imenti.

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’) Thank you, Hon. Members. Before we move to the next Order, join me in welcoming students of Masinde Muliro University from Kakamega County; Brook Hill Academy from Embakasi East, Nairobi County, and Githuguchu Primary School from Ndaragwa, Nyandarua County. They are seated in the...

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’) Thank you. Member for Uriri.

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’) Thank you. Hon. Tim Wanyonyi, do you want to contribute to this debate?

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’) Hon. Zamzam.

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’) What is out of order?

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’) Is that the mood of the House?

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’) Hon. Nabulindo, this is a chance to reply.

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’) The decision on this Motion as requested by the Hon. Member will be made the next time the Motion is listed on the Order Paper. 25th September 2024 NATIONAL ASSEMBLY DEBATES 15 The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’) Hon. Esther Passaris. COMPREHENSIVE REFORM OF...

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’) Hon. Sirma, you will have the last bite on this matter. (Loud consultations)

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’) Member for Marakwet West, what is out of order?

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’) Of course, Hon. Sirma, you must withdraw that remark if you, indeed, made it.

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’) Order. Hon. Sirma, did you say the judges must resign for making that judgement? Did you say they must or should?

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’) Go ahead with your submission.

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’) Few thieves or no thieves? Next Order. ADOPTION OF REPORT ON THE CONSOLIDATED FUND SERVICES EXPENDITURES FOR THE FIRST SUPPLEMENTARY ESTIMATES FOR FINANCIAL YEAR 2024/2025 Committee on its consideration of the Consolidated Fund Services for the The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’) Hon. Makali...

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’) Hon. Makali Mulu, do you want to come back?

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’) Thank you so much. Hon. Members, the decision on this Motion is deferred to the next time the matter is listed on the Order Paper. (Putting of the Question deferred) Next Order. ADOPTION OF REPORT ON FUNDS SPENT CONTRARY TO PROVISIONS OF ARTICLE 223...

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’) Thank you so much, Hon. Mbai. Hon. Members, just like the previous Motion, the decision on this particular Motion will be made the next time the matter is listed on the Order Paper. (Putting of the Question deferred) Next Order. THE COFFEE BILL The...

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’) Hon. Ngusya. (Hon. Charles Nguna spoke off record) Hon. Gichimu, go ahead.

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’) Order! Hon. Mawathe, who gave you the chance to speak? This chance is for Hon. Gichimu, Member for Gichugu. You did not even request for a chance.

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’) Order! Hon. Gichimu.

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’) Member for Embakasi South.

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’) Thank you. Hon. Luyai, Member for Saboti. Hon. Oundo, Member for Funyula.

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’) Hon. Raso, I hope you have heard the request for a statement. (Hon. Moses Kirima spoke off the record) Order, Hon. Kirima. 19th September 2024 NATIONAL ASSEMBLY DEBATES 11

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’) Hon. Kirima, what do you want to say on this request for a statement? Give him the microphone.

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’) Hon. Member, I cannot see your card here. Hon. Ikiara.

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’) Hon. Murugara.

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’) Hon. Mulyungi.

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’) You know what to do. You should not do that inside another request for a statement. This request for a statement is directed to the Departmental Committee on Administration and Internal Affairs. Hon. Raso has already said 19th September 2024 NATIONAL ASSEMBLY DEBATES 12...

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’) Order, Hon. Raso. I do not mean to interrupt you. Can you summarise?

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’) Hon. Makilap.

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’) Thank you. The next Statement to be issued would be by the Departmental Committee on Agriculture and Livestock.

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’) What is out of order, Hon. Keynan?

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’) Hon. Raso, this was a commitment that was made yesterday, and you are behaving as if you did not even make it.

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’) Yes, Hon. Keynan.

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’) They have heard you. Go ahead.

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’) Thank you. Hon. Raso, you have listened to the Member for Eldas and, from where I sit, this cannot be handled in the casual manner that the Committee wants to handle it. I would not want you to say anything on this matter, but...

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’) Thank you. Note also, that there is more than one question before your Committee dealing with abductions and disappearances, and not just this one. That is why I think it is important that the Committee takes this matter seriously. Before we go to the...

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’) Hold on! Is the Member for Gilgil in the House? What about the Member for West Pokot? I suggest you go on with the response to the statement by the Member for West Pokot, Hon. Rael Kasiwai, if you have it. Proceed with it...