Haji Abdul Mohammed

Sen. Osotsi, just a moment. What is your point of order, Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale?

Sen. Osotsi, if indeed that was what you had insinuated, could you please clarify? If that is the case, please, can you either withdraw or substantiate the matter?

Sen. Osotsi, the report that you are referring to states that the Prime Cabinet Secretary nominated the said individual. What you have been asked to substantiate is whether or not you have evidence of whether the Prime Cabinet Secretary removed the person that you are referring to as a candidate...

Sen. Osotsi, let me stop you right there. The fact that you are grounded, and we all know you are grounded, you might have this information. Are you able to table evidence of the fact that you are referring to, not the fact that you are aware of? Are you...

It is not Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale who required you to withdraw; it is the Chair. I will require you to withdraw that statement and replace it with something that is more formable and understandable.

Thank you, Sen. Osotsi. Sen. Chute, you have the Floor.

What is your point of order, Sen. Cherarkey? (Sen. Chute stood in his place) Sen. Chute, please resume your seat and mute your microphone.

Sen. Chute, are you able to substantiate?

Sen. Chute, will you table the report?

Sen. Chute, as much as we agree to your opinion, it is unfair to profile people based on regions. Please, continue with your contribution without making any reference to certain regions and certain people.

Very well. Proceed, Sen. Chute.

Sen. Mandago, what is your point of order?

Sen. Faki, endelea.

Asante, Seneta. Sen. Chute, I will allow you to continue with your contribution, but I urge you to refrain---

Thank you, Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale. Sen. Chute, Sen. Khalwale took some of my words in his submission. If you have listened to him keenly, you should be guided on how you should continue with your contribution. Please, refrain from mentioning any tribes or regions. Most of the Senators have guided...

Continue, Sen. Chute.

Sen. Chute, since it has been brought up, please, withdraw and apologize.

Sen. Cherarkey, what is your point of order?

Sen. Olekina.

Thank you. Sen. Cherarkey, proceed.

Just one word. I think Sen. Faki might be worried about why the blogger in Mombasa was sodomised. He did not listen to me properly. I said as a senior lawyer, I did not say I am a senior advocate or a senior counsel. I am a senior lawyer. I...

Proceed, Sen. Ogola.

Sen. Munyi Mundigi proceed.

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, I rise pursuant to Standing Order No.41 regarding quorum. I feel strongly that we do not have quorum. (The Clerk-at-the-Table consulted the Temporary Speaker)

Hon. Senators, having failed to attain quorum at the expiry of 10 minutes, the House stands adjourned, pursuant to Standing Order No.41 (2) (a) , until tomorrow, Wednesday 2nd October, 2024, at 9.30 a.m. The Senate rose at 5.43 p.m. ADJOURNMENT Hon. Senators, having failed to attain quorum at the...

Counsel, if I may interrupt you. You have less than 15 minutes and I see on the list that you still need to call three other witnesses, including the Governor. Will you be able to manage that within the 15 minutes?

Counsel, you have three minutes.

Thank you, Counsel. Hon. Senators, we will now give you an opportunity to ask questions.

Hon. Senators, we will now take your questions and we will keep it under 30 minutes. We will be giving each Senator one minute to ask questions because there are several requests and we need to have many people as possible. Therefore, one question, one minute and be very brief....

Sen. Wambua, halafu utajibu maswali hayo mawili.

You see, Wambua, you managed in one minute. Witness, go ahead and answer those two questions.

Next question is by Sen. Karen Nyamu and Sen. Mumma, in that order.

Sen. Nyamu, just one question, please. Sen. Mumma.

The next question will be from Sen. Samson Cherarkey, followed by Sen. Beatrice Ogola.

Next question is by Sen. Hilary Wakili, followed by Sen. Johns Mwashushe Mwaruma.

Hon. Senators, the questions have been very similar. So, I hope the next Members who want to ask a question will ask different questions going forward. Sen. Kisang, followed by Sen. Beth Syengo.

Sen. Mungatana, MGH followed by Sen. Kavindu Muthama.

Thank you. Sen. Kavindu Muthama.

Next question by Sen. Veronica Maina, followed by Sen. Omogeni.

Witness, proceed.

The next questions are from Sen. Alexander Munyi and Sen. Osotsi.

Hon. Senators, since we are out of time, I will take the last two questions from Sen. John Kinyua, followed by Sen. Mo Fire Gataya.

Thank you, witness. Counsel for the Governor, you had a remainder of four minutes. Which witness do you want to call next?

Yes, Counsel for the Assembly.

Counsel, you have requested for an extra 15 minutes. As put by the Counsel for the Assembly, indeed, in the morning, your lead counsel requested that we give equality of arms as per the timings of yesterday. Counsel for the Assembly, I doubt we can give you one hour 30...

Thank you. Counsel for the Governor, you may proceed. [The Temporary Speaker (Sen. Abdul Haji) left the Chair] [The Speaker (Hon. Kingi) resumed the Chair]

Yes.

Legal Counsels from both sides, I need to make a ruling on the time issue. This time around, we have to be very stringent to the times allocated. We had agreed that the evidence and cross-examination will take four hours. The County Assembly’s side has taken three hours on one...

Yes, then we shall be advised on how to proceed with the other three witnesses. Of course, stepping on the traditions of the House, where the House has previously summoned witnesses and considered them to be the witnesses of the House. I am most humbled.

Mr. Speaker Sir, this is a moral of the Motion. The bulk of the evidence and the case that is being presented before Senate is on the shoulders of this specific witness. So, we have a lot of questions for her. It would be quite unfair for our client if...

That is okay. I am getting a note from my Lead Counsel.

Legal Counsel, you can see the mood in the House. Senators do not want to go through the experience they went through the other time because of poor management of time. I can give you 20 minutes, but it is with a caveat. I give you 20 minutes, which I...

Very well. You have 20 minutes on your time.

We may abandon two of the first witnesses. We will call two of the witnesses in the first list and then we shall go to the witnesses who have been summoned. We shall forfeit one witness in the earlier list.

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, at the closing, we will also take consideration and look at the evidence and their statements. We might take two, but let me just consider their statements.

So, you will still be calling only four witnesses. How will you do that in one hour?

Okay. While you think about it and taking into consideration that you used three hours on one witness, I will still stick on the Thank you. I would like to know how many minutes I still have for me to know how to restructure my questioning.

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, I am very disturbed. I appreciate you have guided the House on the application by the Counsel for the Assembly for more time. I would like to appeal to you because we want to deal with the issue of Meru conclusively. If due to Standing Order...

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, we have been sitting here for long and I would like to appeal to you, as you consider Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale’s request, I do not think that all of us sitting here can wait until all the five or six witnesses are done for us to...

Sen. Gloria, what is your point of order and that is the last point of order?

Senator for Embu, I clearly said that Sen. Gloria was the last point of order. Let me make a ruling on this issue. Sen. (Dr.) Boni Khalwale, as much as I appreciate your concerns, and I will let it slide - your use of words; it could have just been...

It is not. Witness?

Please, answer questions as asked by the Legal Counsel.

Kindly play the video.

Serjeant-at-Arms, please, get the translator.

Kindly play the video.

Counsel, your time is up.

Witness. One moment.

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, I have. I can confirm that the paybill---

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, it is not a different account.

Counsel, I will have to stop you there. You had one last question.

You are welcome. I think we can be---

The Counsel is already off. I do not think you can make a clarification.

Counsel, let me guide you.As you start, know that your one hour starts when you start speaking.

It is up to you how many minutes you are going to take, but just know that your time has started.

Thank you. Yes, proceed Counsel.

Thank you, Counsel. That is well noted. I will advise Counsel not to coach or guide the witnesses as we go forward. However, it is for the Senators to decide on their own on how they will take that questioning.

Thank you, witness, you may take leave. Serjeant-at-Arms, please, show in the next witness. (The Witness for Meru County Assembly (Ms. Hyrene Kawira) was ushered into the Chamber) Counsel and Clerk, just give us a few minutes as we do some housekeeping. (Interruption of hearings) Please call the Order to...

Very well Counsel, we may proceed. That was a procedural matter that we had to dispense with. For your guidance, you had already utilized 10 minutes, you have 50 minutes to conclude with your evidence.

No, the time has stopped. (The Witness for Meru County Assembly (Ms. Hyrene Kawira) took the Oath)

Counsel, let me just speak directly to the witness. When responding, please use yes or no. Do not just say ‘yeah.’ Okay?

Also, be audible.

Who has an objection?

Sorry, you have a---?

I am most obliged, Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir. I have always held my Senior Learned Counsel with high esteem until this afternoon when he makes an objection on a point that is not legally founded. Their evidence, that has been supplied to us from the Governor in terms of the...

I am well guided, Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir. So, with respect to the murder of your dear husband, did the Governor ever send condolences to the family? (The Clerk at-The Table consulted with the Temporary Speaker (Sen. Abdul Haji)) Counsel for the Assembly, could you respond to what the Legal...

Very well, Counsel. Let us restrict our questioning to matters concerning the impeachment of the Governor. I tend to agree that if this matter of the murder case is in court, then it shall be sub-judice for us to discuss it here. Let us steer clear of that. Counsel, I...

Stop the time. Let us play the video. (A video clip was played in Kimeru) The Interpreter (Mr. Gitonga Kabori) : Bw. Spika wa Muda, jina langu ni Gitonga Kaburi, kutoka shirika la utangazaji la Kenya Broadcasting Corporation (KBC) , Mwagu FM. Nanukuu yale Gavana anasema. Naomba tuanze. (A video...

You can stop the time.

Counsel, as we proceed, could you, please, also advise the witnesses to stay back and not to go anywhere, until the Senators ask them questions during the questions of clarification time.

The previous witness also could be advised to stay behind, please.

Not now. Once we finish with all the witnesses, we will call her back for cross-examination or questioning.

Counsel, could you also tell us the affidavit by the witnesses is on which document?

What is your point of order, Sen.

Thank you, Senator. Just one moment, counsel. Stop the time, please.

Can you say that again, counsel?

Okay, give it to the Serjeant-at- Arms times and it will be distributed to the Senators.

Thank you, Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir. We received the defense documents from the Governor on Saturday past 5.00 p.m., the required time. Out of that, we realized some anomalies on the part of the affidavits, internal memos and letters given in the defense. Our witness being an advocate and after...

Thank you. (Loud Consultations) Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, the materiality of the fidelity is about the issue of timing and filing. However, for my own purpose and use, I wanted to know whether the counsel for the defence objected to what the counsel has just talked about.

What is your point of order, Sen. Eddy? If I could give guidance that this witness was one of the witnesses who were summoned through the Senate on the request of the Counsel. The summons went out this morning.

So far, he has not objected.

Very well. We have established that. Please, proceed.

Counsel, you can proceed with the cross-examination.

Counsel, you only have 14 minutes, be aware.

Legal Counsel for the Assembly, be aware that you only have 10 minutes to conclude with providing your evidence and witnesses.

Counsel, you can have your witness sworn in. Serjeant-at-Arms, kindly facilitate the swearing-in of the witness. (The witness for the County Assembly (Mr. Jacob Kirari) took the Oath)

No, we are approaching question time very soon.

Thank you, Abbas. Sen. Cherarkey.

Sen. Cherarkey, can you substantiate or withdraw and go by the information provided by the Commissioner, Senior Counsel, Sen. Omogeni?

Yes, you can substantiate. That is what I wanted to clarify. You would substantiate the amount of Kshs100 million spent by PSC on refurbishment of Parliament following the destruction by the demonstrators.

Hon. Senators, you will now be making your contribution, starting with Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale.

Would you want to be informed by Sen. M. Kajwang’?

Thank you, Senator. Sen. Omogeni.

Thank you, Sen. Omogeni. When this debate resumes, you will have five minutes remaining to conclude your submission. ADJOURNMENT Hon. Senators, it is now 1.00 p.m, time to adjourn the Senate. The Senate, therefore, stands adjourned until today, Wednesday, 31st July, 2024, at 2.30 p.m. The Senate rose at 1.00...

Hon. Senators, I will now propose the question. (Question proposed) Hon. Senators, it is now open for debate. Proceed, Sen. Thang’wa.

Mover, Sen. Gataya Mo Fire, please reply. One moment, Sen. Gataya Mo Fire. Sen. Faki, you wanted to contribute?

Proceed, Sen. Wambua.

Thank you, Senator. Sen. Gataya Mo Fire, you can reply.

Thank you, Senator. That matter is deferred. ADOPTION OF REPORT ON SENATE NOMINEES, ON BEHALF OF COUNTY GOVERNMENTS, TO THE POSITION OF SRC MEMBER (Motion Deferred)The Chairman is not here. It is deferred. Next Order. THE LOCAL CONTENT BILL (SENATE BILLS NO.50 OF 2023)

Clerk, can we confirm that we have quorum? (The Clerk-at-the Table consulted with the Temporary Speaker) Serjeant-at-Arms, ring the Quorum Bell for 10 minutes. (The Quorum Bell was rung) ADJOURNMENT Hon. Senators, having failed to attain the quorum at the expiry of 10 minutes, the House stands adjourned, pursuant to...

(Laughter)

Sen. John Kinyua, what is your point of order?

(Laughter)

Senator for Makueni and Sen. Kavindu Muthama, please, we want to hear the Senator in silence.

Thank you, Senator. Sen. Enoch Wambua, proceed.

Very well, you can continue.

Thank you, Senator. Proceed, Sen. Muthama Agnes Kavindu.

Thank you, Senator.

Thank you, Senator. Proceed, Sen. Mungatana.

Thank you, Senator. There being no other Senators wishing to contribute, I ask the Mover to reply.

Thank you, Senator. We shall defer putting the question to a later date. (Putting of the Question on the Bill deferred) Let us proceed to the next Order. Second Reading THE PUBLIC HOLIDAYS (AMENDMENT) BILL (SENATE BILLS NO.31 OF 2023) Second Reading THE COUNTY ASSEMBLY SERVICES (AMENDMENT) BILL (SENATE BILLS...

Thank you, Prime Cabinet Secretary. Sen. (Prof.) Ojienda, please, ask one supplementary question if you have because we do not have time. We are running out of time.

Hon. Senators, we are running out of time and with your indulgence, I will have to cut this Session short because the other two Cabinet Secretaries are already here. They have arrived. So, I will only allow two supplementary questions; one from Sen. Gataya Mo Fire and the other from...

Thank you, Senator. Sen. Isa Juma Boy, please proceed.

Sen. Boy, nilitoa agizo kwamba uende moja kwa moja kwa swali lako. Uliza swali; hadithi nyingi hatutaki.

Kuna dada yetu kwa jina Zuhura Swale Mwabege ambaye alikuwa akifanya kazi Saudia. Aliuawa mwaka jana mwezi wa Disemba. Dada huyu kwao ni Magaoni, Sub-County ya Msambweni. Aliuwawa na mpaka sasa hivi, familia yake haijapata sababu ya kuuwawa kwake Mimi ninakemea sana Embassy yetu ya kule. Sio kwa ubaya lakini...

Asante, Senator. Cabinet Secretary, usually from the public and they demand for these answers. So, we hope that we will have more interactions with you in the future.Thank you and we wish you all the best in your duties, Sir. (The Prime Cabinet Secretary and Cabinet Secretary for Foreign and...

Hon. Cabinet Secretary, I am sorry for interrupting you. Could you please summarize the remaining answers because of time? We do not want to keep you here for too long as we already have the responses. Instead of going word for word, just summarize because there are many supplementary questions....

the designated national authority. This registry will be fed by sectors specific registries; from the energy, agriculture and other sectors.I would like to assure this House and Kenyans that we engaged in a rigorous public participation process so as to ensure that this space which is shrouded in a lot...

Okay. We will take other supplementary questions. I will start with Sen. Esther Okenyuri. I hope your question is relevant to the main Question that was asked by the Senator for Kisumu and please, go straight to your question.

Thank you, Senator. Thank you for being brief. We will take another question from this side. Proceed, Sen. Okong’o Omogeni.

Thank you, Senator. The Cabinet Secretary can respond to those two questions and then we take the other questions. The Cabinet Secretary for Environment, Climate Change and Forestry (Hon. Soipan Tuya) : Thank you, Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir. I will start by responding to Sen. Okenyuri on the status of...

Thank you, Senator. We will take the next two supplementary questions from Sen. Mbugua and Sen. Munyi Mundingi. Give him the microphone, please.

Thank you, Senator. Sen. Munyi Mundingi, proceed.

Sen. Mbugua asked a question about the Forest Conservation and Management Act. Within the law, we have participatory forest management processes. Without the support and partnership of communities, we cannot succeed with our tree planting or forest management. The intended purpose for participatory forest management procedures is to have the...

The Cabinet Secretary for Roads and Transport (Hon. Kipchumba Murkomen): Thank you, Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, for the opportunity to come and respond to the questions. Again, let me repeat that it is my greatest pleasure to come back to this august House.Since all the questions relate to pending roads,...

This has become also a problem for us at the road safety site. The questions Kenya is asking, and then again using this answer, it is across the country. All the roads which are pending are partially done. The sequencing of how to construct these roads requires that you finish...

Thank you, Cabinet Secretary. We will take one supplementary question. Sen. John Kinyua, is it in regard to this Question? You can go ahead.

Wakati bajeti inapitishwa kama ile schedule iliyopitishwa majuzi inayoonyesha pesa zinavyotumika, tayari imetenga pesa za kila barabara. Ukiangalia zile barabara nilizozisoma hapo awali, nilionyesha wazi kila barabara na kiasi chake kwa bajeti. Wakati hiyo schedule itatoka National Treasury mda wowote kutoka sasa, kila mkenya ataweza kuangalia ni pesa ngapi imetengwa...

Cabinet Secretary, you may proceed. The Cabinet Secretary for Roads and Transport (Hon. Kipchumba Murkomen) : Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, I will be brief so that I save time. This question is important, but it also touches on the other question on Road Maintenance Levy Fund (RMLF) . Restoration of...

Hon. Cabinet Secretary, because of time, I will use the Standing Orders to extend this sitting for a further 15 minutes, so that we conclude Question No.058. The Cabinet Secretary for Roads and Transport (Hon. Kipchumba Murkomen) : Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, unfortunately, I may not meet the expectations of...

Thank you, Senator. Hon. Senator, since we have extended the sitting for 15 minutes, Sen. Faki, we are not taking any supplementary questions at the moment. We will take supplementary questions at the end and that is what we have agreed. We are going to the next question. (Sen. Osotsi...

Thank you, Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, and thank you, Cabinet Secretary, for appearing to answer my Question. I rise to ask Question No.59, and it reads- CRITERIA FOR ALLOCATION OF FUNDS BY KERRA AND MEASURES TO PREVENT MISAPPROPRIATION

Due to the limited budget ceiling available to the State Department of Roads, KeRRA is unable to allocate funds to all critical areas. Allocated funds should be enough to address the particular challenge and realize value for money as a thin spread of funds would result in ineffective allocation with...

Thank you, Senator. Cabinet Secretary, proceed. The Cabinet Secretary for Roads and Transport (Hon. Kipchumba Murkomen): Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, first of all, the truth is that every constituency gets the same amount of money from the Kenya Rural Roads Authority (KeRRA). They are the same. For the last Financial...

Cabinet Secretary? The Cabinet Secretary for Roads and Transport (Hon. Kipchumba Murkomen) : Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, I confirm that the Ministry, through its road agencies is actively undertaking real-time monitoring and mapping of infrastructure affected by the unusually heavy rains during the period of April, May 2024, as well...

Sen. Cherarkey, proceed.

Sen. Sifuna.

Thank you, Senator. Sen. Chute proceed.

Just a moment, Sen. Chute. Sen. Osotsi, I need to understand whether by calling Sen. Mohamed Chute, the Chair is not following the order. The speaker just before Sen. Chute was Sen. Sifuna and he is in the leadership. The reason Sen. Cherarkey was given an opportunity is because he...

Thank you, Senator. Proceed, Sen. Ogola. Sen. Ogola: Thank you, Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir. I want to start by thanking the Senate for standing up and being there for Kenyans who lost their lives and are lying in the morgues, the injured who are still in hospitals and for the...

(Applause) Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, I thank you for that indulgence. That is the Senate I knew as I was coming to this House. That, it is a House of wisdom, responsiveness and consideration. (Applause)

Hon. Senators, it is now 11 minutes past one. Having concluded the business for which I extended the time of sitting, pursuant to Standing Order No.34 (2) (a) , the Senate stands adjourned until today, 3rd July, 2024, at 2.30 p.m. The Senate rose at 1.11 p.m.

Sen. Crystal Asige, proceed.

Sen. Orwoba, we have Members of the SBC here. Sen. Tabitha Keroche is the Deputy Senate Majority Leader. Sen. Tabitha Mutinda is also a Member of the SBC. They will pass the information to the Speaker who shall give a ruling on your point of order.Hon. Senators, before this Bill...

Thank you, Senator. Let us now listen to Sen. (Prof.) Kamar.

Thank you, Sen. (Prof.) Kamar. Seconder, you can move the Bill. (Resumption of debate on Bill)

Hon. Senator, I will now allow debate on this Bill. Senator for Nyeri County, proceed.

Hon. Senators, I will allow debate on this. The first Senator will be Sen. Faki.

Endelea Seneta. Asante.

Asante sana, Seneta. Sen. Alexanda Munyi Mundigi.

Asante Seneta. Sen. Tabitha Karanja.

Thank you, Senator. Sen. (Prof) Margaret Kamar.

Thank you, Senator, Sen. Murgor, proceed.

Sen. Githuku, proceed.

Thank you very much, Senator. Hon. Senators, we have come to the end of the debate. I now call upon the Mover to reply.

Very well, Sen. Kibwana. We shall defer the Division to a later date. (Putting of the Question on the Bill deferred) Hon. Senators, at this point, I will rearrange the Order Paper, so that we proceed to call on Order No.21. Proceed, the Chairperson for Committee on Finance and Budget....

Sen. Faki, proceed.

At this point, Senators can make their contribution to the---

Clerk, can you confirm? (The Clerk-at-the Table consulted with the Temporary Speaker) Serjeant-at-Arms, please ring the Bell for ten minutes. (The Quorum Bell was rung) ADJOURNMENT Hon. Senators, having failed to attain quorum at the expiry of the 10 minutes. Therefore, the House stands adjourned pursuant to Standing Order No.41...