NYORO, SAMSON NDINDI

Thank you very much, Hon. Temporary Speaker. I am happy to be back. I hope Hon. Kimani Kuria and all the Members know that I have been carrying a lot of their responsibility and liability out there, as a comrade and as a friend.

That is on a light note. It does not need any point of order, Hon. Temporary Speaker.

It has not been a very exciting period for the last many days. However, we are always happy to carry the responsibility that we have as leaders. We ought to do what we must both inside the House and outside. Many times, as human beings, we have to balance many...

Hon. Temporary Speaker, thank you very much for giving me an opportunity to provide further information on what the Member has stated. First, I wish to remind all Members that no one is a repository of facts in this House. We all have different views. As the Member has put...

On a point of order, Hon. Temporary Speaker. 16th June 2026 NATIONAL ASSEMBLY DEBATES 54

Hon. Temporary Speaker, is it proper to continue limiting debate to the point of gagging Members? Before us are the Bill and the Report of the Committee. I request that we not limit Members’ contributions. One may be quoting the Report and not the Bill. Let us open the debate...

Thank you very much, Hon. Temporary Speaker. From the outset, just like many things from this Government, dangerous things are wrapped in semantics. I want to start by bemoaning the fact that the Finance Bill, as it is, was actually published in the Order Paper slightly before the session. Clearly,...

Second, I want to give an issue around the Finance Bill itself.

Hon. Temporary Speaker, that is the kind of filibustering that wastes our time in this House, rather than debating very important issues before us. The second point is that, as a country, we need to engage in introspection. We have had Finance Bills every single year. What are we told...

This is the point I am trying to make.

Thank you very much, Hon. Temporary Speaker. Take note of what the Leader of the Majority Party has said. Hon. Temporary Speaker, that is the tragedy of being self-absorbed. I say that because every Member in this House is a leader in their own right…. (Loud consultations)

Hon. Temporary Speaker, that is the tragedy of being self-absorbed when you have a higher estimation of yourself than reality. Every person in this House is a leader. It does not matter the positions we occupy in this House. We are all here as leaders with an equal voice to...

Hon. Temporary Speaker, the other issue is the insinuations we have been hearing here about mitumba. Yes, we need to grow our own 16th June 2026 NATIONAL ASSEMBLY DEBATES 60 industries in Kenya, but it is always good to give a transition period. I am saying this because I have...

I have never seen a situation where, during public participation, a person volunteers information to be taxed more, or to be taken through (inaudible) . This is the first time that we are seeing purported participants... (Loud consultations)

I attended as a participant. I requested through Parliament. The more reasons they never carried my proposals, the more legitimate proposals were not carried. I am withdrawing. (Loud consultations)

Hon. Temporary Speaker, as I will be proposing amendments and I do not want you to throw me out to the disadvantage of Kenyans, I withdraw.

The point I am making is this: I have sat here in this House, and I have seen people purporting to direct Members on how to debate. I am here telling Kenyans that this Parliament, through the Committee, is proposing an increase in the prices of mitumba. They will purport...

Hon. Temporary Speaker, it is disappointing that the Chairman has not read his own Report. I kept saying here that we are not just debating the Bill; we are also debating the Committee Report. Nobody here will purport to guide me on how to debate. Kenyans will gauge who is...

On a point of order, Hon. Temporary Speaker. 16th June 2026 NATIONAL ASSEMBLY DEBATES 54

Hon. Temporary Speaker, is it proper to continue limiting debate to the point of gagging Members? Before us are the Bill and the Report of the Committee. I request that we not limit Members’ contributions. One may be quoting the Report and not the Bill. Let us open the debate...

Thank you very much, Hon. Temporary Speaker. From the outset, just like many things from this Government, dangerous things are wrapped in semantics. I want to start by bemoaning the fact that the Finance Bill, as it is, was actually published in the Order Paper slightly before the session. Clearly,...

Second, I want to give an issue around the Finance Bill itself.

Hon. Temporary Speaker, that is the kind of filibustering that wastes our time in this House, rather than debating very important issues before us. The second point is that, as a country, we need to engage in introspection. We have had Finance Bills every single year. What are we told...

This is the point I am trying to make.

Thank you very much, Hon. Temporary Speaker. Take note of what the Leader of the Majority Party has said. Hon. Temporary Speaker, that is the tragedy of being self-absorbed. I say that because every Member in this House is a leader in their own right…. (Loud consultations)

Hon. Temporary Speaker, that is the tragedy of being self-absorbed when you have a higher estimation of yourself than reality. Every person in this House is a leader. It does not matter the positions we occupy in this House. We are all here as leaders with an equal voice to...

Hon. Temporary Speaker, the other issue is the insinuations we have been hearing here about mitumba. Yes, we need to grow our own 16th June 2026 NATIONAL ASSEMBLY DEBATES 60 industries in Kenya, but it is always good to give a transition period. I am saying this because I have...

I have never seen a situation where, during public participation, a person volunteers information to be taxed more, or to be taken through (inaudible) . This is the first time that we are seeing purported participants... (Loud consultations)

I attended as a participant. I requested through Parliament. The more reasons they never carried my proposals, the more legitimate proposals were not carried. I am withdrawing. (Loud consultations)

Hon. Temporary Speaker, as I will be proposing amendments and I do not want you to throw me out to the disadvantage of Kenyans, I withdraw.

The point I am making is this: I have sat here in this House, and I have seen people purporting to direct Members on how to debate. I am here telling Kenyans that this Parliament, through the Committee, is proposing an increase in the prices of mitumba. They will purport...

Hon. Temporary Speaker, it is disappointing that the Chairman has not read his own Report. I kept saying here that we are not just debating the Bill; we are also debating the Committee Report. Nobody here will purport to guide me on how to debate. Kenyans will gauge who is...

Thank you very much, Hon. Deputy Speaker. In a progressive, modern economy, three tenets are very important and serve as the foundation of a thriving modern economy. One is the modern bureaucracy. Two is the rule of law, and three is accountability through democracy. We must always do our best...

Thank you very much, Hon. Temporary Speaker for giving me this chance. I commend the Committee because it is evident that it undertook its work. Instead of singing choruses to the Executive, it has pointed out in its Report that we are in a very dire situation regarding the debt...

Hon. Temporary Speaker, it is good Hon. Makilap rose. He has shown Kenyans that he has slept on the job for the last several years that he has been in the Public Debt and Privatisation Committee. The Budget and Appropriations Committee is about spending. The Committee that he seconded its...

On a point of order, Hon. Temporary Speaker. We will not allow this. Please, Hon. Temporary Speaker, I have been mentioned.

It is good we are engaging on this matter. When I served Kenya as the Chairman of the Budget and Appropriations Committee, there was no illegal borrowing. The illegal borrowing called securitisation started in 2025 and it is on record. My second point of order concerns the same thing. The...

The total debt in the year 2022 was Ksh8.7 trillion. What about the total debt in 2023? I know the current debt. You may need to give me time to check.

Hon. Speaker, I want to repeat and speak loudly. There was no single issue of illegal debt off-the-book loans prior to last mid-year. It is called securitisation. There was not a single instance when I served Kenya as the Chairman of the Budget and Appropriations Committee. Secondly, my brother Kimani...

Hon. Temporary Speaker, firstly, that is not factual. For the entire three-year period, the debt averaged about Ksh800 billion. It is also important that we face Kenyans clearly and tell them there is a reason why this Parliament has three committees. It is not my responsibility to continuously answer questions...

Hon. Temporary Speaker, it is important for us to note that we are disinforming Kenyans. The fact of the matter is that the entire 10 years of President Mwai Kibaki, Kenya borrowed Ksh1.2 trillion.

I have sat here listening and the Hon. Leader of the Majority Party keeps talking about solutions. But his entire presentation so far and time is actually out, is about lamentations. So, if we have the Government lamenting before the Kenyan people, what do you want Kenyans to do?

On a point of order, Hon. Temporary Speaker.

Hon. Temporary Speaker, is it in order for a Member who was visibly asleep to just wake up, purport that we are discussing the Budget Report, and then go ahead and impute improper motives upon a Member who gave a very objective consideration of the Report before the House? Hon....

Thank you very much, Hon. Speaker for giving me this chance. I have listened to the Cabinet Secretary, and there is no space in his Statement about the views of Kenyans. I am yet to meet a single Kenyan who supports having this quarantine facility in Kenya. The Government needs...

Thank you very much, Hon. Deputy Speaker, for this chance. From the outset, it is good that I make it very clear having served in the same capacity as those whose work we are debating today that most of my views will go towards the owner of the fiscal policy...

Hon. Zamzam, you do not debate by yelling. Press the intervention button and Hon. Deputy Speaker will see you.

Hon. Deputy Speaker, this is why Members should sit and listen carefully. If the Member had listened, she would not have interjected. Instead of informing the House, you paraded your ignorance before the House. (Hon. Zamzam Mohammed spoke off the record) 3rd June 2026 NATIONAL ASSEMBLY DEBATES 32 As I...

Thank you very much, Hon. Speaker. Hon. Zamzam, I would not have interrupted you. I just wanted to remind you that we are debating the Report of the Committee, not Ndindi Nyoro. Secondly, you should stop misleading Kenyans. I agree that all public primary schools in Kiharu look like academies...

Thank you very much, Hon. Temporary Speaker. As I rise to congratulate Mr Humphrey Wattanga, I also wish to make brief comments, especially on foreign policy. Before that, Hon. Temporary Speaker, allow me to send my most sincere condolences to the families affected by the tragic fire at Utumishi Girls...

Thank you very much, Hon. Temporary Speaker. I am happy that Hon. Millie is still around. From the previous debates, I can see her struggle. She is actually lost. I do not even know whether Hon. Millie Odhiambo still recognises Millie Odhiambo as her name. Such a great mind should...

On a point of order, Hon. Temporary Speaker. Let us hear from Hon. Ndindi. Hon. Temporary Speaker, I respect Hon. Millie Mabona a lot, but this House keeps on attacking people who are defenceless here. It is not a 28th May 2026 NATIONAL ASSEMBLY DEBATES 51 very good trend. They...

Thank you very much, Hon. Temporary Speaker. As I rise to congratulate Mr Humphrey Wattanga, I also wish to make brief comments, especially on foreign policy. Before that, Hon. Temporary Speaker, allow me to send my most sincere condolences to the families affected by the tragic fire at Utumishi Girls...

Thank you very much, Hon. Temporary Speaker. I am happy that Hon. Millie is still around. From the previous debates, I can see her struggle. She is actually lost. I do not even know whether Hon. Millie Odhiambo still recognises Millie Odhiambo as her name. Such a great mind should...

On a point of order, Hon. Temporary Speaker. Let us hear from Hon. Ndindi. Hon. Temporary Speaker, I respect Hon. Millie Mabona a lot, but this House keeps on attacking people who are defenceless here. It is not a 28th May 2026 NATIONAL ASSEMBLY DEBATES 51 very good trend. They...

Thank you very much, Hon. Speaker, for giving me this chance to contribute. I call upon Members of the National Assembly, as this matter heads to mediation, to be considerate to county governments. There has been rise in Kenya’s revenues from the last financial year to the current one, nominally...

Hon. Speaker, actually I never needed to be informed. I have no time for those frivolities and filibustering. It is important that this issue has been brought up, even as I conclude. They have raised frivolities of who needed to call what and write a letter to the Speaker. We...

Hon. Speaker, going back to the debate, I call upon all of us to be honest to ourselves. We need our county governments to provide health care services. We need our county governments to provide all the devolved functions and give quality service to the same people that we represent....

Thank you very much, Hon. Temporary Speaker. I will go direct to the point. Number one is that I wrote two letters to Parliament when this issue happened. One for recall, and the other one for consideration with specifics on the things that I am proposing. I am happy that...

Hon. Temporary Speaker, I request Hon. Junet, an ignorant Member cannot inform the House. I need no information from you. I know what I am talking about.

Thank you, Hon. Temporary Speaker. Can I continue? Let me hear the Member for Kiharu first. Yes. I am making my submissions. I hope those minutes are not eating into my time, Hon. Temporary Speaker. The second thing… (Loud consultations)

Hon. Temporary Speaker, I never called any Member ignorant. I said the information he was giving me was not sufficient enough to be an information.

Hon. Temporary Speaker, I would require that we actually check the HANSARD, kindly, because I also recall that I was insinuating about what he said, not the person. Clearly, as you had actually ruled yourself, Hon. Temporary Speaker, the Member was out of order. For continuity, because you are executing...

Hon. Temporary Speaker, in response, to make it clear, fuel from Saudi Arabia does not pass through the Strait of Hormuz. Let us not keep misinforming Kenyans by seeking short-term solutions. Lastly, I want to beseech my brothers and sisters. Many times, we take a stand along political lines. We...

On a point of order, Hon. Temporary Speaker. What is out of order, Hon. Nyoro? My point of order, Hon. Temporary Speaker, is on the honesty we need to have in this debate. We are very quick to give examples of Ethiopia and Burundi when it is convenient. Why can...

On a point of order.

Hon. Temporary Speaker, I would never have wanted to interrupt Hon. KJ, but he has mentioned my name adversely. Hon. KJ has been in this Parliament for almost 10 years. I think he knows better that the laws related to taxation, such as the RMLF, the Value Added Tax (VAT)...

On a point of order, Hon. Temporary Speaker. What is out of order? You have mentioned the Member for Kiharu. Let us hear him. It is not a point of information; he is on a point of order. Hon. Temporary Speaker, again, I would never have wanted to interrupt the...

Hon. Temporary Speaker, I think it is clear for Kenyans why to be Secretary-General, one actually needs to qualify. 26th May 2026 NATIONAL ASSEMBLY DEBATES 47 (Loud consultations)

Thank you very much, Hon. Speaker, for giving me this chance to contribute. I call upon Members of the National Assembly, as this matter heads to mediation, to be considerate to county governments. There has been rise in Kenya’s revenues from the last financial year to the current one, nominally...

Hon. Speaker, actually I never needed to be informed. I have no time for those frivolities and filibustering. It is important that this issue has been brought up, even as I conclude. They have raised frivolities of who needed to call what and write a letter to the Speaker. We...

Hon. Speaker, going back to the debate, I call upon all of us to be honest to ourselves. We need our county governments to provide health care services. We need our county governments to provide all the devolved functions and give quality service to the same people that we represent....

Thank you very much, Hon. Temporary Speaker. I will go direct to the point. Number one is that I wrote two letters to Parliament when this issue happened. One for recall, and the other one for consideration with specifics on the things that I am proposing. I am happy that...

Hon. Temporary Speaker, I request Hon. Junet, an ignorant Member cannot inform the House. I need no information from you. I know what I am talking about.

Thank you, Hon. Temporary Speaker. Can I continue? Let me hear the Member for Kiharu first. Yes. I am making my submissions. I hope those minutes are not eating into my time, Hon. Temporary Speaker. The second thing… (Loud consultations)

Hon. Temporary Speaker, I never called any Member ignorant. I said the information he was giving me was not sufficient enough to be an information.

Hon. Temporary Speaker, I would require that we actually check the HANSARD, kindly, because I also recall that I was insinuating about what he said, not the person. Clearly, as you had actually ruled yourself, Hon. Temporary Speaker, the Member was out of order. For continuity, because you are executing...

Hon. Temporary Speaker, in response, to make it clear, fuel from Saudi Arabia does not pass through the Strait of Hormuz. Let us not keep misinforming Kenyans by seeking short-term solutions. Lastly, I want to beseech my brothers and sisters. Many times, we take a stand along political lines. We...

On a point of order, Hon. Temporary Speaker. What is out of order, Hon. Nyoro? My point of order, Hon. Temporary Speaker, is on the honesty we need to have in this debate. We are very quick to give examples of Ethiopia and Burundi when it is convenient. Why can...

On a point of order.

Hon. Temporary Speaker, I would never have wanted to interrupt Hon. KJ, but he has mentioned my name adversely. Hon. KJ has been in this Parliament for almost 10 years. I think he knows better that the laws related to taxation, such as the RMLF, the Value Added Tax (VAT)...

On a point of order, Hon. Temporary Speaker. What is out of order? You have mentioned the Member for Kiharu. Let us hear him. It is not a point of information; he is on a point of order. Hon. Temporary Speaker, again, I would never have wanted to interrupt the...

Hon. Temporary Speaker, I think it is clear for Kenyans why to be Secretary-General, one actually needs to qualify. 26th May 2026 NATIONAL ASSEMBLY DEBATES 47 (Loud consultations)

Thank you very much, Hon. Temporary Speaker. I rise to state my reservations on the Government’s sale of its 15 per cent stake in Safaricom PLC. I have listened to my brother, the Chairperson of the Committee. I also had the opportunity to appear before the Committee. One reservation that...

I also see people moving around inviting Members to raise points of order during my contribution. I hope this filibustering is not meant to take away my time. I just want to teach my brother some formula.

That is exactly the incompetence I was referring to. Using the same formula the Chair put forth, he finished with the P/E ratio. I want to inform my brother that the P/E ratio of Safaricom by the close of this financial year will be around Ksh16. The market average is...

Give me time because every Member will have time to contribute and I do not need any help. I will also not purport to help them. I would rather contribute and the other Members will have their time. Let me put it correctly. The formula I am using is the...

Precisely.

Hon. Temporary Speaker, I am repeating for the umpteenth time that I know there are even more than four formulas. There are more, but I want to zero in on to their own. P/E ratio is Price over Earnings ratio. We are talking about a price of Ksh34 so, the...

On a point of information, Hon. Temporary Speaker. Are you on a point of information? Yes.

Hon. Temporary Speaker, I urge my brothers in this House to stop misleading Kenyans and to stop parading their ignorance before Kenyans. Dividends are not paid out to any shareholder who was in the books by the closure of the financial year. Dividends are paid out when you close the...

Thank you very much, Hon. Speaker, for this chance to contribute. From the outset, we must start walking the talk when it comes to devolution. When we are reading a budget in the upwards of Ksh4 trillion and it is increasing, of course at a higher percentage even than what...

Thank you very much, Hon. Speaker. I join other Kenyans in mourning all six Kenyans who lost their lives last week in the tragic accident. We all know the Hon. Ng’eno was a leader of his own kind, courageous, always standing up for what is right for the people. I...

Thank you very much, Hon. Temporary Speaker, for this chance to contribute. Any time there is a new Bill, there must be a problem and a solution to prescribe. I have read the entire Bill word-for-word and sat here listening to both the Mover and the Seconder. One of the...