Veronica Waheti Nduati

Thank you, Madam Temporary Speaker. When a person rises on a point of order and is given the audience by the Speaker--- My colleague, Sen. (Dr.) Oburu, was on his feet. (Loud consultations)

Can we kindly have order on both sides. Let me clarify something. When Sen. (Dr.) Oburu had fully submitted and the point of order had been raised, his minutes were gone. Sen. Madzayo, kindly raise your point of order. That is the direction I have on the timing. That is...

Under what Standing Order do you cite that point of order?

Okay. Resume your seat.

Sen. Mwaruma, you may proceed.

What is your point of order, Sen. Wafula? (Sen. Wafula spoke off record) Please activate your microphone or you can move to the Dispatch Box if that one is not working.

What Standing Order are you referring to?

Okay, resume your seat, Sen. Wafula. Proceed, Sen. Mwaruma. (Sen. Mwaruma’s microphone was switched off) Clerk’s desk, kindly support the Senator.

Proceed, Sen. Kisang.

What is your point of order, Sen. Wambua? Please cite the Standing Order you are relying on.

Sen. Kisang, do you want to substantiate or clarify what you were addressing the House about the amount of money collected?

What is your point of order, Sen. Mungatana?

Senators, it is good we keep to the Standing Orders and refer to the correct Standing Order. Did you cite 105? I do not think it is the correct Standing Order. I will request Sen. Kisang to proceed.

Sen. Mungatana, MGH, it is in order that when you are addressing the House, you address the House through the Chair. The first Standing Order which you cited was wrong. The correct one was Standing Order No. 118. When a Senator is on his feet, he requires the respect and...

Sen. Sifuna.

Sen. Cherarkey, what is your point of order and cite the Standing Order?

Sen. Sifuna, he was on a point of order, which I want to dispense with (Sen. Oketch Gicheru spoke off record) Sen. Oketch Gicheru, kindly wait. He was on a point of order, which I want to dispense with. (Sen. Oketch Gicheru spoke off record) Sen. Oketch Gicheru, you are...

Sen. Oketch Gicheru, kindly resume your seat.

Madam Temporary Speaker, kindly confirm for me how much time I have left.

You have three and a half minutes. Your time was paused.

Sen. Wakili Sigei, kindly proceed.

Sen. Olekina.

Sen. Olekina will have six minutes when we resume. Hon. Senators, it is now 6.30 p.m., time to adjourn the House. Therefore, Senate stands adjourned until Wednesday, 19th April, 2023, at 9.30 a.m. The Senate rose at 6.30 p.m.

(Laughter)

Sen. Mungatana, MGH, would you reconsider the use of language and words and their ordinary meaning in English parlance?

Sen. Wakili Sigei, it appears you did not attend Alliance High School.

Hon. Senators, in our usual tradition of receiving and welcoming visitors to Parliament, I extend a warm welcome to them and on behalf of the Senate and on my own behalf, wish them a fruitful visit.I thank you. I will request Sen. Wamatinga to welcome the students and the teachers...

Sen. Mumma, can you welcome the students?

Thank you very much, Madam Temporary Speaker for giving me an opportunity to welcome students from Giitwe Girls High School. I would like to convey the message from the Senator of Kiambu, Sen. Thang’wa, who has asked me to welcome you to the Senate. Sen. Thang’wa is out on official...

Thank you, Sen. Methu. I will now invite Sen. Olekina. (Resumption of debate on the Motion)

Madam Temporary Speaker, I rise to support this Motion which, in fact, is timely. As a young legislator, I will be having time to take to account the respective CSs on what they have budgeted for young people and women in this country because they have budget lines which they...

What is your point of order, Sen. Oketch Gicheru? Sen. Okenyuri, just pause there. Please cite the Standing Order you are denying on.

Sen. Okenyuri.

Address Sen. Oketch Gicheru

Address Sen. Oketch Gicheru

Sen. Mwaruma, please proceed.

Sen. Tabitha Mutinda, please, proceed.

(Applause)

What is your point of order?

Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale, respectfully, we cannot contemplate before it actually happens. The Senate is not served with any proceedings as yet. As a Senator, he will be free to debate before any proceedings are done. (Applause)

Sen. (Dr) Khalwale, you may proceed.

Sen. Wamatinga, do you want to respond to that?

Sen. Wamatinga, kindly proceed and contribute to the Motion.

Sen. Osotsi, you may proceed.

Lastly, we will have Sen. Wafula.

Unaunga mkono ama unapinga?

I now call upon the Mover to reply. I hope you will be brief because I have a Communication from the Chair.

Thank you. Pursuant to Standing Order No.84 (1) , I hereby make a determination that the matter does not affect counties. (Question put and agreed to) (Applause) COMMUNICATION FROM THE CHAIR VISITING DELEGATION FROM BOMET COUNTY ASSEMBLY (Applause)

Hon. Senators, it is now 6.30 p.m., time to adjourn the House. The Senate, therefore, stands adjourned until tomorrow, Thursday, 30th March, 2023, at 2.30 p.m. The Senate rose at 6.30 p.m.

Proceed, Sen. Tabitha Mutinda.

Thank you, Madam Temporary Speaker, for the opportunity to contribute to this. I would like to celebrate the second birthday of the Senate under the new Constitution. I happen to have served in the Commission for the Implementation of the Constitution (CIC) . I endorse what the Senate Majority Leader...

achievements and the challenges that this House has faced in the ten years. I served in the National Assembly for 15 years. In the last, ten years, that was the time when this House was established under the new Constitution.At that time, I used to understand this House differently. In...

become Senators; Women Representatives have become Governors and Governors have become Senators. People like Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale who resigned as Senator have since come back to the Senate. Therefore, the wheel is evolving and I know that the common sense of the entire country will one day in our lifetime...

This Senate has a long way to go. We need to put it back to where it was in the Bomas Draft Constitution. Let us make the Senate the ‘Upper’ House.Madam Temporary Speaker, your Office is powerful. That Office should defend devolution the way Sen. Cheruiyot was explaining here. Your...

where citizens do not have information on what to expect from their leadership. Civic education should not only be in the county governments, but also in institutions in those counties in order to bring up an informed citizenry.As I wind up, I look forward to this Senate clearly stating the...

We will have some comments from Sen. Okiya Omtatah. That should be the last one because we are approaching

Sen. Okiya Omtatah, I do not like to stop you, mid-way. Unfortunately, there was an earlier direction from the Hon. Speaker, that at 5.30p.m., this House does adjourn. Hon. Senators, earlier on the Speaker directed that Sen. Oketch Gicheru moves a Motion of Adjournment under Standing Order No. 37. I...

Sen. Oketch Gicheru, I would like that you stick to the Motion that you are bringing to the House without using names. If you have to state names of certain individuals or personalities, it is important that you substantiate or bring the evidence that links them to whatever you are...

Sen. Oketch Gicheru, I would like that you stick to the Motion that you are bringing to the House without using names. If you have to state names of certain individuals or personalities, it is important that you substantiate or bring the evidence that links them to whatever you are...

Thank you, Sen. Sifuna. Sen. Oketch Gicheru, take the Floor and as guided by the Chair, withdraw the names and proceed. We will then proceed as per the Standing Orders

Thank you, Sen. Sifuna. Sen. Oketch Gicheru, take the Floor and as guided by the Chair, withdraw the names and proceed. We will then proceed as per the Standing Orders

Sen. Oketch Gicheru, I have directed you, for purposes of your moving the Motion, to withdraw the names first. You will have a chance to debate, move your Motion and call the Seconder.

Sen. Oketch Gicheru, if you are interested in proceeding with the Motion---

will table them in this House. I want to be on record that if I am needed to bring evidence and substantiate according to our own Standing Orders, I am willing. We are not in this House to lie to anybody in matters that are going to bring serious conflict...

Sen. Oketch Gicheru, I then direct you to table that evidence by tomorrow.

When the House business resumes tomorrow, you will table that evidence.

I now give you one minute because your time is up.

Proceed on then.

Those acts of hooliganism are something that led the framers of the Constitution to establish what they called an independent institution called the Police Service. However, yesterday, knowing very well that that area has three police stations, I was shocked to see that the police from Ruai, Gatunguru and Ruiru,...

On a point of order, Madam Temporary Speaker. (Loud Consultations)

We will now call a Division. (Loud consultations) (Loud Consultations) Serjeant-at-Arms, please, proceed to close the door. (The Bars were drawn and Doors closed) (Loud consultations) (Loud Consultations) Can we have tellers? (Voting in Progress) Is the tally complete? Clerk, can we have the tally if it is ready? I...

What is your issue, Sen. (Dr.) Murango?

Clerk, can you confirm that tally? Reconfirm that tally. Two agents come here. (Sen. (Dr.) Murango and Sen. Oketch Gicheru approached the Temporary Speaker) Let me give direction. I did vote. Clerk, reconfirm the votes and guide me.

Clerk, can you confirm that tally? Reconfirm that tally. Two agents come here. (Sen. (Dr.) Murango and Sen. Oketch Gicheru approached the Temporary Speaker) Let me give direction. I did vote. Clerk, reconfirm the votes and guide me.

Please, allow him to finish, the same way Sen. Omogeni finished his submission, in silence.

to further define who is a Speaker and what happens when one of the Senators who has an original vote is on a seat as you are this afternoon.Sen. Omogeni, Standing Order No.86(6) was meant for the kind of situation that we have right now. When the Speaker or presiding...

I will now rule on the matter, so that we proceed with the debate. Under Standing Order No.84 (3) , each Senator has a vote. Standing Order No.86 (6) states – “Where the Presiding Officer has an original vote, the presiding officer shall cast his or her vote from the...

Hon. Senators, the results of the Division are as follows- AYES: 11 NOES: 11 ABSTENTIONS: Nil On a point of order, Madam Temporary Speaker. I would like to go back to the Constitution. I would like to bring to your attention Article 259 (3) - --

Hon. Members, let us have order in the House. Can you speak through the Chair?

Sen. Okiya Omtatah, resume your seat, please. (Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale spoke off record) Sen. Okiya Omtatah, you are now out of order. This is your first warning. Resume your seat. Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale, take the Floor.

Sen. Okiya Omtatah, resume your seat, please. (Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale spoke off record) Sen. Okiya Omtatah, you are now out of order. This is your first warning. Resume your seat. Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale, take the Floor.

Senate Majority Leader, you are sleeping in the House. [The Temporary Speaker (Sen. Veronica Maina) left the Chair] [The Speaker (Hon. Kingi) in the Chair] Thank you, Madam Temporary Speaker. They have given you? (Loud consultations)

Thank you, Madam Temporary Speaker. I reiterate that this Report is not properly before this House. It has not been tabled properly, in conformity with our Standing Orders. This is the danger of rushing to amend Standing Orders to accommodate certain interests. The practice and traditions of this House has...

Madam Temporary Speaker, thank you for giving a directive. I wish to state here that I said – and the HANSARD will bear me witness – that “when a report is sneaked in”. The Senate Majority Leader is so emotional. All that I am saying is, let us follow the...

Before we proceed, it is official and it was recorded yesterday in the proceedings of this House, that the Report was presented before the House. Whether it is properly before this House or not, that will be subject to a certain verification, which will be done by the Speaker. In...

I have given--- (Loud consultations) Madam Temporary Speaker, thank you for giving a directive. I wish to state here that I said – and the HANSARD will bear me witness – that “when a report is sneaked in”. The Senate Majority Leader is so emotional. All that I am saying...

Sen. Olekina!

Sen. Olekina, I am presiding over the House. I have listened to you and heard your objection. Sen. Olekina, I have given you a direction. (Loud consultations) (Loud Consultations)

I have given--- (Loud consultations) (Loud consultations) (Loud consultations)

Sen. Wambua, I wish that you had paid close attention to the direction that I had given to the House just before I allowed you to rise on that point of order. We were finishing discussion on the use of unparliamentarily language used; the use of the word ‘sneaky’. I...

Madam Temporary Speaker, I plead with my colleagues. You have given directions on the issue of the language used by the Senator for Narok County. The next question for you to determine, which you have, is if this report is properly before the House. (Loud consultations) Sen. Madzayo, are you...

What is your point of order, Sen. Wambua. That will be the last point of order before I make a finding with respect to that Report.

Sen. Sifuna, he is on a point of order. I believe you know the rules. I had given a direction that, that will be the last point of order and the I will make a finding as expected by the House on the Report.I have looked at the report and...

Sen. Olekina, you are going overboard. Do not do that. I have made a ruling. I will give Sen. Cheptumo a chance to make his point of order. Let us have order in the House once again.

Sen. Cheptumo, it has been dispensed with.

Allow Sen. Cheptumo to finish his submission on the point of order.

Madam Temporary Speaker, I had requested you earlier. This is not the first time we are finding ourselves in such a situation. The Minority of this House are beginning to set a very bad precedent. Unfortunately, they are aided by your office. Once the Speaker has made a determination on...

Sen. Sifuna, wind up your point of order.

The Senate Majority Leader, please, resume your seat. Minority side, let us have order. I have given a ruling on that issue. (Sen. Madzayo spoke off record) Sen. Madzayo, this is the third time I have asked you to resume your seat. I will now take action against you. Resume...

Can you allow me--- Sen. Madzayo, resume your seat. Allow the Senate Majority Leader to complete his point of order. (Loud consultations)

Thank you, Madam Temporary Speaker. I do not know why the Minority side feels fidgety about this particular issue. How this House resolves matters is--- (Loud consultations)

You will have the opportunity to speak. They will choose otherwise and if they do not agree, I am sure they will speak through their vote. Therefore, the second amendment---. You remember for three weeks this House could not move because of the squabbles and fights regarding leadership of the...

Sen. Sifuna, the point of order will come after he finishes moving the Motion. Some hon. Senators: No! I will use parliamentary language on people who behave in a parliamentary way. If you heckle, I will refer to you as a heckler because that is what you are!

The proposals by the Committee is to provide the Speaker with time and opportunity to look at the documentation before their desk so that appropriate communication is made. This is in reference to Standing Order No.23.Whenever there are changes in the Office of the Senate Majority Leader or the Majority...

Minority side, let us have order once again. Sen. Wambua, resume your seat.

Order, hon. Senators!

Point of order, Madam Temporary Speaker. Hon. Senators, I now propose the question.

What is your point of order?

Okay, proceed Sen. Olekina.

Sen. Sifuna, while I listen to your point of order, I hesitate to imagine that you want me to revisit that. This is because I will seek--- (Sen. Sifuna stood in his place) Please, resume you seat Senator. (Sen. Sifuna sat at his place) I will seek your description of...

Not on that issue.

I have pressed. Look at it. (Loud consultations) (Loud consultations)

Madam Temporary Speaker, is the distinguished Senator from Nandi County in order to state that a distinguished Senator, who represents the people of Narok County reads the newspaper upside down? I have just read the Constitution. We may be over-zealous in the points that we want to put across. I...

Proceed, Sen. Mandago. Is he there? He is not there. Next is Sen. Cherarkey.

(Loud consultations) (Laughter)

Sen. Olekina, the procedure for seeking a point of order is well delineated under the rules. You have not pressed on your system.

(Laughter) (Loud consultations) (Loud consultations)

Hon. Senators, maintain your cool. Let him finish in half a minute. Sen. Olekina, finish your point of order. (Loud consultations)

Madam Temporary Speaker, the Azimio One Kenya Alliance have said they will be demonstrating on Mondays and Thursdays. They should go and demonstrate there and not inside the House. (Loud consultations)(Loud consultations) Madam Temporary Speaker, it is really disturbing to see the Senate Majority Leader acting like a heckler. It...

Time is up. Resume your seat, Sen. Cherarkey. Sen. Osotsi, you may proceed. Hon. Senators, when you get an opportunity, use the five minutes in a wise manner. (Loud consultations)

Sen. Osotsi, you are being informed. (Loud consultations) (Loud consultations)

Sen. Osotsi, your time is up. Kindly, resume you seat.

Time is up. Resume your seat, Sen. Cherarkey. Sen. Osotsi, you may proceed. Hon. Senators, when you get an opportunity, use the five minutes in a wise manner.

Madam Temporary Speaker, I rise under Standing Order No.109. Allow me to read the Standing Order in verbatim. Standing Order 109 states- ‘After the question on a Motion the Mover of which has a right of reply has been proposed, a Senator rising in his or her place may claim...

Sen. Osotsi, your time is up. Kindly, resume you seat.

(Loud consultations) (Loud consultations)

Resume your Seats; Sen.(Laughter) Madam Temporary Speaker, I rise under Standing Order No.109. Allow me to read the Standing Order in verbatim. Standing Order 109 states- ‘After the question on a Motion the Mover of which has a right of reply has been proposed, a Senator rising in his or...

I will render a judgement on it. The Speaker is in charge; let me hear the point of order. I will respond to it. (Sen. M. Kajwang’ stood in his place) Resume your seat Sen. M. Kajwang’. (Sen. M. Kajwang’ spoke off record) Sen. M. Kajwang’, resume your seat. (Laughter)(Laughter)...

(Loud consultations) (Loud consultations) (Applause) An

Sen. Cherarkey, resume you seat.

The Senate Leader of Minority (Sen. Madzayo): Huu ni wakati mgumu sana kwa waislamu. Ni wakati ambao wamejiweka mbele ya Mwenyezi Mungu. Mhe. Amina Munyazi alionyeshwa madharau ambayo haiyajaonekana ndani ya hii nchi kwa mwanamke wa Kiislamu.Bi. Spika wa Muda, hili si jambo la kuchezea namna hiyo. Hata kama wewe...

Sen Madzayo, let me hear the point of order by Sen. Chute. (A hon. Sen. Spoke off record) He is not moving; I have not given him a right to move a Motion before this House. He is on a point of order. Please, settle down.

On a point of order, Madam Temporary Speaker. (Loud consultations) (Loud consultations) Kitendo hicho cha kupiga risasi ni kinyume cha sheria. Askari hawaruhusiwi kupiga watu risasi. Askari hawaruhusiwi kurusha hata hiyo teargas ambayo inarushwa wakati kuna fujo. Lakini haya yalikuwa maandamano ambayo yalikuwa yanafanywa katika nchi nzima kulingana na ile...

I agree with you, Madam Temporary Speaker. Before I prosecute my thoughts on this matter, I think that the frustration that is coming in this House over and over is because of the simple issue of not implementing the rules of this House. If a hon. Senator in this House...

I am a Senator and I am supposed to be heard in silence. Sen. Orwoba is shouting. This hooligan here is shouting. Another hooligan there is shouting. Temporary Speaker (Sen. Veronica Maina) : Sen. Oketch Gicheru, when I am addressing the House, you ought to listen, not to continue shouting....

Thank you, Madam Temporary Speaker. I also want to be heard in total silence. (Loud consultations) Madam Temporary Speaker, we have heard dangerous pronouncements from some of the colleagues in the political circles talking about final

(Loud consultations)An. Madam Temporary Speaker, with all my body parts, I second the Motion. (Question proposed) Proceed, Sen. Thang’wa.

Sen. Wambua, you are out of order. Sen. Cherarkey and Sen. Oketch Gicheru, resume your seats. (Loud consultations)(Loud consultations) Protect me, Madam Temporary Speaker. These hooligans are shouting in the House all the time. Temporary Speaker ( I gave a direction. Sen. Okenyuri is first addressing the House.

What is your point of order? (Sen. Olekina stood in his place) Hon. Senators---

On a point of order, Madam Temporary Speaker.

I will give each side one point of order. Sen. Okenyuri, proceed. (Loud consultations)

(Applause) Resume your seat, Sen. (Loud consultations) An.

Wind up, Sen. Olekina.

Resume your seat, Sen.

Senators, resume your seats. (Loud Consultations) (Loud consultations) (Loud consultations)

I gave a direction. Sen. Okenyuri is first addressing the House.

Wind up, Sen. Cherarkey. Can you resume your seat, you will get a chance. During the “handshake” Government --- (Loud consultations) We are not going to have a ‘handshake’ in this country. That was a bad governance experiment for this country. Thank you.

Correct, Madam Temporary Speaker. I will not be intimidated or blackmailed. I will speak. I will not be silenced. I am not a coward. (Sen. Sifuna spoke off record) I will give each side one point of order.

Yes, Sen. Okenyuri.

I will give one point of order to Sen. Olekina. I will give him only one minute.

Bi. Spika wa Muda, ninashukuru kwa kunipa fursa. Ni vizuri Hoja hii imeletwa leo ndio watu waeze kuongea. Kulingana na Katiba ya Kenya, Kipengele 37, kinasema vizuri sana, maandamano yanapaswa yafanywe lakini kwa amani. Kwa hivyo, watu kubeba mawe ni jambo ambalo linaudhi sana. Kuwashambulia Wakenya wengine na kuwaibia ni...

Sen. Olekina, I gave you one minute to raise that point of order. We are seeking for order in the House. Let us continually by example. If the Chair gives you one minute, stick to it and make your point. Hon. Senators, you could have done better this afternoon. Sen....

Hon. Senators, on the Majority side, maintain order.

Resume your seat, Sen.

Wind up, Sen. Cherarkey. Can you resume your seat, you will get a chance.

Sen. Madzayo, you are out of order. I will now ask you --- (Sen. Madzayo spoke off record) Sen. Madzayo resume your seat. You are out of order. (Sen. Madzayo stood in his place) I will now ask the Serjeant-at-Arms, to ask ---- I asked you to resume your seat....

Please, conclude.

Sen. Oketch Gicheru, I want to give you an opportunity to raise your point of order. However, before I do that, let me issue this caution. Increasingly, there is a lot of disrespect in the manner in which you are handling business in this House. I give you this opportunity...

Proceed, Sen. Kinyua. (Loud consultations)

Wind up, Sen. Kinyua. I want to take one more person from this side.

Your time is up, Sen. Kinyua. Let us have Sen. Wambua, the last one. Sen. Wambua, unfortunately, it is 6.30 p.m. ADJOURNMENT

Let us have Sen. Maanzo.

Senators, it is now 5.30 p.m. and Sen. Wambua was to move a Motion, which is of national importance. .I invite Sen. Wambua to take the Floor. MOTION OF ADJOURNMENT UNDER STANDING ORDER NO.37 SUPREME COURT RULING ON LGBTQ COMMUNITY

Your time is up. (Question proposed) I now call upon Sen. (Prof.) Kamar. Sen. Munyi Mundigi, hold on until the Speaker calls you.

Let us have Sen. Munyi Mundigi. As he takes the Floor, Senators, I would urge you to condense your remarks. Maybe, cede a minute because this is a Motion that many Senators are interested in contributing to. By consensus, we could say four minutes each instead of five. An. Hon....

Your time is up, Sen. Munyi Mundigi. Proceed, Sen. Korir.

Sen. Korir, once the Speaker rules, you have to abide by the ruling in future engagements. Let us proceed to the next Senator to finalize this matter. Sen. Maanzo, you may proceed.

Your time is up, Senator. Sen. Cheptumo, you may have the Floor.

Time is up. .Sen. Lemaletian, do you have a point of order, an intervention or you want to contribute?

Sen. Beth Syengo, you may have the Floor.

Sen. Beth Syengo you need to clarify that.

What is your point of order, Sen. Wambua? Make it short.

Hon. Senators, I request Sen. Beth Syengo to take half a minute to finalize her contribution. (Loud consultations)

Your time is up, Sen. Beth Syengo. Sen. Kisang’, please, proceed.

Your time is up, Senator. Sen. Methu, proceed.

Your time is up. Sen. Lemaletian, proceed. Condense your comments to maybe one and a half minutes, so that everybody can contribute.